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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are people on Mumsnet secretly racist or what?

231 replies

2024wtf · 05/08/2024 23:29

So many posters not being called out. They say blatantly racist things and back it up with "You can't keep shutting us down by calling us racist". It's because you're a racist assh*le.

Comments aren't even being deleted. Last month, you called YOURSELF a Karen you'll have pages and pages of people telling you off.

OP posts:
flapjackfairy · 06/08/2024 10:37

Lacdulancelot · 06/08/2024 07:11

I think every white person is racist. And I’m white.
Most of us are not deliberately racist but we have no experience of being black or Asian and will occasionally have an opinion that is based on white privilege without even knowing so. However we want to do better and will listen.

And then there are horrible racists who know exactly what they’re doing.
Unfortunately they’re getting more emboldened.

@Dorisbonson is right though. When a country is already broken in terms of housing, health and education then the communities will feel unheard and this is when racists can stir up trouble.
They will find a scapegoat and nasty thugs will join in and the riots begin.
Labour have got a lot of work to sort this.

Well that would make every man sexist every able bodied person discriminatory to the disabled etc etc . What a stupid argument !

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2024 10:42

2024wtf · 06/08/2024 09:57

the middle class hide it well. they're not the ones rioting are they

No. Why aren't they?

You might want to reflect on that too.

Quirkyme · 06/08/2024 10:54

Where are the Garys and Garyettes like this lad below? Silent or you gonna rise up and back your mate here:

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 06/08/2024 10:57

hairbearbunches · 06/08/2024 09:04

The whole thread was taken down because ‘it was causing distress in RL’.

I call out racism when I see it. I don’t use it as a weapon when someone has a different opinion to me.

I think inward migration is far too high and we need robust measures to bring the number down. I think all people coming across on boats should have any right to be here revoked. They are law breakers.

a significant minority will be only too happy to call me a racist for those opinions. And so the debate is shut down and we move no further forward in terms of a solution that works and is fair both to those who want to come and those already living here and calling this place home.

Racism now seems to mean whatever it suits some people's agenda to mean.

No, racism doesn't mean whatever people want it to mean.

But you also don't get to decide that it's only racism if you say so. You are not the ultimate arbiter.

If people consider something to be racist, they are entitled to say so. If you disagree, you too are entitled to say so. If posts are reported and MNHQ chooses to delete them, then that is their prerogative - they have a duty to ensure that the content on the site is appropriately moderated.

MrsSkylerWhite · 06/08/2024 11:06

skippy67 · Today 08:34
They're out and proud.

Hiding behind usernames?

Mls1984btc · 06/08/2024 11:10

@CurlsnSunshinetime4tea just out of curiosity would you consider 1st generation immigrants British?

TempsPerdu · 06/08/2024 11:18

Thank you @RedToothBrush for possibly the most thoughtful post I’ve ever read on MN. I wish I had time to respond to each point (and some of the other excellent posts) at length, but too much going on today.

I will say though, as someone who has a foot in both the white working class and middle class worlds, and whose less advantaged white working class extended family would most certainly be deemed ‘racist’ by many on here, I’ve found it alarming for some time how class and the virtual death of social mobility within white communities is so frequently overlooked at a time when we’re obsessing over many other facets of identity politics.

I’m also very much alert to the fact that my own multicultural and predominantly middle class circle - who regard me as ‘one of them’ and don’t know my wider family background - very evidently hold the white working classes they see around them in disdain.

As someone involved in education, I do wonder how things like the current curriculum decolonisation agenda in schools will play out - certainly in my own DD’s primary it often manifests as replacing white role models with a very narrow subset of black ones in topic areas such as science and history, and a constant underlying narrative that these people were held back by the greed, ignorance and cruelty of white people (all white people, not just the ruling classes). Given that there’s a large subset of disadvantaged white working class kids within the school, who are continually being told they are privileged while receiving no additional support themselves, I fear that despondency and resentment could very easily set in from an early age. We urgently need to consider how we implement these initiatives, and do it thoughtfully rather than clumsily, to avoid unintentionally alienating other groups.

Unlike many of my more mobile middle class peers, who have arrived from all corners of the U.K., I live in the same London suburb where I grew up. When I was born in the ‘80s it was around 85% white; now the white British population makes up less than a third overall, and the proportion of white children in local schools is 17% and falling rapidly (at primary level it’s more like 1 in 10). That’s a phenomenal rate of change, which has tested community cohesion to the limit and pushed already creaking local infrastructure to near collapse. The situation is hugely localised and complicated, and anyone who claims it isn’t is in denial IMO.

bombastix · 06/08/2024 11:21

Quirkyme · 06/08/2024 10:54

Where are the Garys and Garyettes like this lad below? Silent or you gonna rise up and back your mate here:

This ie exactly it. What reasoning are you going to do with someone like this? It is about race. Always. Not employment, being a good citizen or anything else. There are no criteria you can meet except be white (and English).

IAmYourFuckOffButton · 06/08/2024 11:53

@2024wtf are you going to comment on the excellent post at 8.55am by RedToothBrush ?

1dayatatime · 06/08/2024 12:10

I agree it was an excellent, balanced and well written post by @RedToothBrush.

OP - I also would like to see your response to this.

79Helene · 06/08/2024 13:11

1dayatatime · 06/08/2024 12:10

I agree it was an excellent, balanced and well written post by @RedToothBrush.

OP - I also would like to see your response to this.

Agree with this about @RedToothBrush's post and also the post by @Flibflobflibflob .

I think a lot of posters would agree with them too, but are less inclined to say anything anymore because they immediately get dismissed and shot down by reply-guys. The reply-guys who can only see one polarised and ideological 'side' of the debate. The ones who refuse to accept the slightest deviation in thinking from the political camp they've nailed their colours to yet are totally blind to their own bias and prejudice, racism or antisemitism, but will quite comfortably call it out if they see it from the other 'side'. It just feels futile engaging.

Wheredidileavemycarkeys · 06/08/2024 13:18

Haven’t seen it but then I haven’t been reading any threads on the riots. I can well imagine there are some real eejits on those.

ilovesooty · 06/08/2024 13:23

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 06/08/2024 00:05

I think part of it is that a lot of the racist posters have learnt how to say racist things while just about sticking within talk guidelines. They are clearly saying (or often implying) very racist things but they manage to evade moderation.

It's straight out of the Farage playbook. Whip up hate as much as you can but stay within the law.

In my experience, MNHQ are generally pretty good at dealing with the posts that are overtly and uncontroversially racist but they haven't yet figured out how to deal with the more sophisticated category.

Absolutely. Some of them are openly racist but being clever about it. I've decided that one or two of the recent prolific ones simply aren't worth engaging with and if they're tried to engage with me directly I've taken to telling them that I'm not interested in anything they have to say.

kirbykirby · 06/08/2024 13:25

Yes, I've noticed a lot of anti-Jewish racism on Mumsnet, especially in the last year 😕.

ilovesooty · 06/08/2024 13:27

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 06/08/2024 00:24

I think it's a bigger problem than just MN though. We as a society haven't managed to figure it out yet.

Farage, for example, has been stoking these riots and winding people up, but he stops just short of incitement. He knows what he can get away with saying without being prosecuted and he uses it to his advantage.

We can all see what he is doing, but under current laws, we are powerless to stop him.

Yes. You get posters pointing out that he hasn't broken the law. What he does do is foment hate, but certain people posting here seem to be OK with that.

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 06/08/2024 13:30

Miss1984btc that can only be answered by the individual. Family culture, traditions and life experience comes into play.
I would never assume that a citizenship certificate or birth is simply all it takes to be British. Some don’t feel that affiliation and to deny that struggle @2024wtf is whitewashing the reality of the immigration experience.

OrchardDoor · 06/08/2024 13:36

I agree that there's a lot of racism which needs to be removed.
Pretending that Karen is only used against racists in the UK is a lie though and you know it.

Voz · 06/08/2024 13:38

Being concerned about uncontrolled illegal migrants is racism these days

Crikeyalmighty · 06/08/2024 13:38

@RedToothBrush I agree with vast amounts of your post- the only thing I would add is that shitting in your own nest , looting and violence towards police won't solve a single aspect of it - because I wouldn't invest in areas like this if I was a big employer - I've seen both sides, originally from Mansfield and live in Bath - in both Mansfield and here, ( but more in Mansfield) I saw quite a lot of new housing allocated to local working class people and yet trashed or neglected within 18 months. A certain section of people seemed to not give a shit about looking after anywhere, be it homes or public spaces- so whilst I'm very aware that the priorities in life may be different , I do think we have to change the mindset. I think we need far more mixing up of housing and social housing needs to be taken off people that simply trash it and given to others that would welcome it- but at least don't cause damage or let the garden grow 6 feet and stick old washing machines in it etc. I fully realise people can be like this in houses they own too- but it's their own assets they are shitting on .

I do understand people's frustrations , areas of the country are a bloody crap hole, but I don't like pure political agitation either simply because they would have liked Farage in charge and given the timing this smacks of it - why not do this 6 months ago with the Tory's - nothing has changed? It's designed to undermine the new gvt and agitated by those who align to the far right. I think they might actually have quite a shock if in power that all of the things they want, no immigrants, communities miraculously improved and sorted , great paid jobs on the doorstep etc - wouldn't happen either- because they too need to accept with rights come responsibilities and adherence to law etc- look at the ones being arrested- most have multiple convictions already for crime .

The gvt have already said we need more social housing, more police, less immigration - let them get on with trying to govern - but that doesn't suit the agitators- they need this shit going on to keep their hate relevant !

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 06/08/2024 13:45

@Mls1984btc replied at 1330

Mls1984btc · 06/08/2024 13:54

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 06/08/2024 13:45

@Mls1984btc replied at 1330

Unfortunately there's a lot of British White mandated the skin colour to be the deciding factor in whether you could be considered British.

How about those 1st generation immigrants who are proud to be British but constantly being reminded that they cannot be and go back to where they came from? Are you able to sympathise with these group of people?

LemonTT · 06/08/2024 13:54

A lot of bad actors have joined the forum and emboldened others. There are a lot of lies and misinformation being spread to support and justify attacks on the minorities, the police and the government. Many useful idiots lapping it all up.

MN need to act quickly to take down posts that spread lies. There’s no point in leaving it up to allow challenges because these people know how to exhaust challenge. There’s no point in justifying posts under freedom of speech when statements and opinions are harmful. You forfeit fights when use them to harm others. Freedom of speech does indeed allow you to state you are a Nazi but you cannot explain or justify that opinion without spouting lies and harmful misinformation.

A new tactic is to blow the dog whistle and then demand to know what they said was wrong.

These posts need to come down. Debate is amplifying lies and falsehoods. Just report them.

Whenwillitgetwarm · 06/08/2024 14:04

LemonTT · 06/08/2024 13:54

A lot of bad actors have joined the forum and emboldened others. There are a lot of lies and misinformation being spread to support and justify attacks on the minorities, the police and the government. Many useful idiots lapping it all up.

MN need to act quickly to take down posts that spread lies. There’s no point in leaving it up to allow challenges because these people know how to exhaust challenge. There’s no point in justifying posts under freedom of speech when statements and opinions are harmful. You forfeit fights when use them to harm others. Freedom of speech does indeed allow you to state you are a Nazi but you cannot explain or justify that opinion without spouting lies and harmful misinformation.

A new tactic is to blow the dog whistle and then demand to know what they said was wrong.

These posts need to come down. Debate is amplifying lies and falsehoods. Just report them.

I read an article earlier which states that 40% of donations to support Tommy Robinsons lavish lifestyle and activities are from America alone. He also has a lot of very wealthy backers. Same for Farage - only a couple of months ago it was revealed that the Australian billionaires and ex Neighbours star, Holly Vallance is a backer.

Many of the millions flowing to these grifters is spent on online activity. This is why you see similar themes, talking points and attack lines. It’s orchestrated. They swarm like a virus across the net to influence, confuse and cause mayhem. They do not wish our society well.

queenofdarkness666 · 06/08/2024 14:07

I think there is no doubt that there is racism on Mumsnet, directed at all sorts of groups, but I have also noticed that there are quite a lot of euphemisms that allow people to be racist/prejudiced in an acceptable way, for example using "Zionist" as a thinly veiled reference to Jews and "Karen" as a thinly veiled reference to white women or even now "far-right" to describe women who defend womens rights. All of these are tolerated because the targets are not seen as having the approved victim status in a way that more blatant racism/prejudice against other minority groups would, so in a sense even when it comes to racism/prejudice there is some disparity in how it is treated, depending on the status of the victim group. I also think the Overton Window has shifted completely to the left.

Newbie8918 · 06/08/2024 14:10

I have found that there is a lot of misinformation and judgement in general.

I find posters more articulate than on general SM which is confusing as they are still brandishing random, baseless statements as facts.

I'm not sure whether it's because we all have random user names and people feel free to post and say what they like maybe 🤔