My silly comment blew up wider family now dh miserable

[Allwelcone]

So my neice is British/dual national with my sil's country, never lived in UK but loves our culture a lot and bigs up her British-ness at school apparently, which is in a third country.

Over on a recent UK visit, dn made a very British pudding but didn't try any of it as didn't like it (it was a crumble type pud) I said "Oh go on try a bit, I thought you aspired to be British!" This was met with gasps from my teen kids and I said "sorry I've been brought to book there".

My sil has raised it as a big issue and its been used as ammo for them to hate on us basically.

My dh is very unhappy, not sure what I can do? Apologise? Leave it? Back story is sil doesn't seem to like bils family and always seems really sad to be in UK. we do try (e.g lending them our car, lots of hosting, being 100% careful all the time not to offend) but we have never bonded.
Advice appreciated.

Yeah u guess. Does it depend on who was offended?

Why not? That just shows how little YOU think of of those countries, not the OP!

Treading on someone’s foot is not the same as making a comment you neither recognised or intended as racist.

I do appreciate things are different for everyone and understand that your Malaysian friend must have been bemused at the least by her obviously thick colleague.

Don’t think my kids were ever treated as inferior when they visited NZ but they did get ribbed for their ‘Pommie’ accents and ways. When they were v little the Kiwi’s thought they were cute but the NZ way is to take the mick (don’t worry plenty of Irish family too) out of everyone. My now adult kids are pretty robust and perhaps being exposed to a range of people and behaviours has contributed to that.

I did admit I had been brought to book in public if you see the OP. This is actually what caught my attention most from your original post: This was met with gasps from my teen kids and I said "sorry I've been brought to book there". I may be misinterpreting, but it sounds like you back-pedalled on your comment because others reacted negatively to it, not because you understood why it might be hurtful and genuinely reconsidered. It may even have come across as if you were feeling silenced by your childrens' reaction to what you still considered a perfectly good comment. If you know you hurt your niece and you didn't mean to, a sincere apology may help, but only if you understand why it was hurtful.

For what it's worth, I was (am) in a similar situation to your niece except with three citizenships - my mother's country, my father's country and the country where I was born and (mostly) grew up. I didn't choose any of these countries, not sure I WOULD have chosen them, but they were (are) mine. Not one more than any of the others. And nothing to do with how desirable each citizenship might be to the rest of the world. If someone had told teenage me she was "aspiring" to be any of these nationalities, she'd have assumed they were confused and tried to explain the situation. It would have been really strange coming from someone who already understood the background, like an aunt.

Also it's not fair to judge your under-18 niece for not having lived in the UK, as if that diminishes her right to do so or makes her interest in the culture somehow phony or pretentious or laughable. She's a child; she hasn't had a choice in the matter. If someday she's 60 and has still never lived there but remains convinced it's the best place in the world to live, then sure, take the piss, but not now.

As far as her not eating the pudding, I'm not sure why she would make something she didn't want to eat (unless perhaps it was made for someone else who loves it) but even the British part of my brain doesn't think it was rude of her not to eat her OWN cooking - to whom was she being rude, in that case?

So basically we want the OP to apologise to her niece for something to which her mother took offence on her behalf ?

OP, kindly. I think you need to reflect a little bit about the way you talk about her "bigging up her Britishness" and "code switching". She is half British. It's who she is, not something she is putting on to gain cool points.

If you are easily definable as one particular nationality, you have no idea of the way people with dual nationality or mixed cultural heritage are constantly asked to justify themselves - even 'jokingly'. Your clumsy comment does not exist in isolation. It is one drop in an ongoing stream of challenges to her cultural identity.

British people in particular find it difficult to understand the importance of cultural identity because we can go anywhere in the world and our culture is understood. We almost never have to explain ourselves - and because it takes absolutely no headspace for us, some people can be a bit eye-rolley when people take it so seriously. It is a micro-aggression borne of unexamined privilege.

My own children have been asked several times why they speak with a British accent. It's just how we speak at home! It's literally their mother tongue - and they are asked to defend themselves and justify it by people who aren't racist, but are just interested in how it came about! Ha ha, what an interesting thing to discuss. Again.

Just to clarify none of them have lived in the UK ever or not for years in bils case. Although not denying they cd have experienced racism here of course in their stays, they would have 100% experienced it in America.
Actually I have always found sil hard work I will need to try and work out whether that means I am a racist. I mean that genuinely.
Bil isn't pulling his weight family wise that's possibly a huge backstory. Good excuse for them not to bother if I'm a horrid cow I guess.

Separate issues I suppose. I will think on it.

Because they're stupid enough to be confused between 'third country' and 'third world country'.

You're right, the latter is arguably worse.

But the point is that OP has said something hurtful to her family, even if it was unintentional. OP's own children immediately recognized that, it wasn't just her SIL. She's failed to properly apologize to her niece for her hurtful words, so it's not surprising that her relatives think she must stand by them to some degree.

OP, before you start digging in and trying to rally support to label your in-laws the unreasonable ones and yourself the victim, apologize. You don't have to take responsibility for motives that didn't exist, but you should sincerely apologize for saying something that was hurtful. Clean up your own side of the street first.

Bloody hell. I gasped at that. No wonder SIL has taken it badly.

Yup. Straight up if you accidentally offend you apologise right?

It was racist.

She doesn’t aspire to be British. She IS British. Would you have said something like to one of your children if they didn’t like the pudding? Or any white person?

You were racist. Own it and apologise.

Don’t think my kids were ever treated as inferior when they visited NZ but they did get ribbed for their ‘Pommie’ accents and ways. When they were v little the Kiwi’s thought they were cute but the NZ way is to take the mick (don’t worry plenty of Irish family too) out of everyone. My now adult kids are pretty robust and perhaps being exposed to a range of people and behaviours has contributed to that.

This is our experience 100% too (but Aus instead of NZ). And I’m from yet a different country, and they took the mick out of me too in Aus, but I soon got used to it and knew it was actually in a friendly way. My adult kids even make fun of people from NZ but in a friendly way which I’m sure some people where we are now wouldn’t understand.

Yup. Straight up if you accidentally offend you apologise right?

I'm curious OP. Does your SIL ever say or do anything that offends you, and if so does she apologise?

Yes, and I do it pretty regularly.

Not a half "apology" like you recounted in your OP. That's closer to saying "well that's me told" than an apology. Tell your niece directly that you're sorry you said something hurtful to her.

Exactly. And when they get it from both sides, which is common, what are they to understand? That they're not really anything and their whole identity is just them putting on airs?

It’s a shame that they didn’t overlook what you said when they should know what you’re like as a person so don’t mean it as it came across

But maybe they do know what the OP is like as a person, and this is just the latest cringey race related faux pas she has made.

Ooooof I winced just reading that.
you owe the family an apology there.

Well, l the colleague was fuming inside. He was very polite back at pointed it's his mother tognue, but the colleague also didnt get it and persisted in follow up comments, equally bizarre, along the line show they had great fun in Indonesia on holiday (because it's apparently the same country) like if he was meant to be honoured by that.

Your family (both sides) seem great and accepting.

Unfortunately it's not the same for other families. It's different like in the case of your family if everyone is in on the joke, but here it seems SiL and the DN are the butt of the joke and it has been going on for a while. In your family everyone is taking the mick, but no one is taking the mick out of OP, it's a very one sided her poking fun at the niece and her little quirks.

If OP and her family has a form for making insensitive comments, then I can see why SIL would be quite sensitive to it after the years Imagine having family thinking it's 'hilarious' your child feels British and that their interest in their own (!) culture is seen as a way to distinguish themselves from other kids in school, therefore not genuine.

People may be hating on Meghan Markle and she said some questionable things, but there were a few things she said when she first came to the UK, the casual racism she described from the royal family members who displayed sort of Victorian era attitudes to race- and some of the things OP said in her comments made me think of that.

Honestly, no, I don't think so.

Obviously I can't speak for your niece, but I'm pretty sure that my dd wouldn't let any upset show to her dad's side of the family if they said something like this. She would absolutely put on a brave face in front of them and insist that it wasn't an issue - I think she would be reluctant to admit to being offended because if she acknowledged it at all, it would open the floodgates and then be very difficult for her not to get really, really upset.

But I also know how incredibly hurt she would be behind closed doors, so I probably would have to say something on her behalf. I would be angry at their insensitivity if I'm honest. Thankfully dh's family don't think like this at all, but she has had the odd comment from family friends etc in dh's home country and those casual little remarks are so alienating.

Tbh I did mean culturally British as in eat the sodding pudding

I think a lot of it comes down to - this is SO trivial- sil refusing some strawberries the other day when I'd cooked lunch for about 12 of his family.

My children have dual nationality, we live in Britain, but we're raising them bilingual and we visit DH's country 4-5 times a year, and yet my in-laws are ALWAYS making comments implying that the children aren't really DH's nationality.

It's always harmless and well-meaning stuff, like just calling them collectively "the English ones" to differentiate them from their cousins, or - actually like you - if they don't like something at dinner time, saying "ah, that's because you're English".

For me, it ranges between being mildly irritating to being a straight up fact. Someone who is no brought up in a country will always be a semi-outsider to a certain extent - and dual nationality friends of mine have said the same to me. On other occasions, (depending on what the remark was), I just remind the person who made the remark, "well, they literally are [DH's nationality]" (if they said something relating to their legal status or suchlike).

It sounds like your in-laws were looking for an excuse to be offended.

Sorry if it's been asked, but what the hell does 'Brought to book' mean? I thought it was a typo, but the OP has said it twice now. Sorry to de-rail, but it's really annoying me!

Does she like strawberries? So, you're annoyed at your SIL and decided to bring her daughter into it?

Seriously, that's not great on top of everything else.