How do men get away with this?

[leavethingsalone]

My friend's daughter is absolutely stunning (and a lovely modest girl). She's 18. She often gets told by strangers how beautiful she is.

That's all great, but she's recently started going clubbing and has come home upset because of the attention.

Most recently she was dancing and a guy came up behind her and was grinding on her from behind. He wouldn't leave her alone. Luckily her friends saw what was going on and stopped it!

I'm sure this happens to lots of other young women too!

She's (hopefully) off to uni in September and has been looking forward to this, but is now starting to feel unsafe as her parents won't be nearby to look out for her!

When will men realise that this simply isn't appropriate behaviour and that women should feel safe when they are out?

On the plus side, DD was at a club on Saturday. A random man was grinding on her. Another man came up and moved him off her.

A lot of men do nothing for fear of starting a fight.

I'm sorry but I think yabu.

I can't help but think this is a wind-up.

If you were to say almost anywhere else, I'd agree.

You're obviously going to get hit on in clubs ffs.

Theres a difference between someone talking to you and someone deciding they are entitled to rub their body against yours.

That's scary! Did the other passengers look or say anything when you yelled at him?

Yeah I'm also perplexed by this, sadly this is pretty standard in clubs (not acceptable, but happens a lot)- part of the reason they're not as popular now. Men are unlikely to stop as much as they should.

At uni we would always go out in a group, get familiar with where the 'bouncers' or whatever they're called now tend to stand in case, and one of us would usually stay sober or not drink much at all. It is a sad state of affairs but not new, and no sign of changing depressingly.

No wonder we are seeing 'women only' nights at nightclubs! Some don't allow men at all.
It's funny because the chatting up thing doesn't happen nearly as much these days. It's all online dating. Yet the predatory sexual behaviour continues.
And don't even get me started on the world of online dating!! It's grim out there, seriously grim.

I think a lot of young men have NO idea what is a reasonable way to indicate you are interested in someone. There's a long standing history of "going out" to clubs as having one purpose of meeting & mingling with the opposite sex so its a forum where young men often go in with the expectation that a sizeable chunk of these women actually want to be hit on.

They are basically desperate for sex and when drunk, their senses completely disappear and they try anything on the offchance the girl is actually up for it and they'll pull.

Quite a lot of girls in those clubs ARE looking for a snog (or more) and will respond with enthusiasm.

The best thing we can do is:

• teach our sons how to actually indicate interest in someone, romantically and sexually, without pushing boundaries
• teach our daughters not to reward bad behaviour

Its not always. I had to rescue my now DH at 19 from a girl throwing herself at him/trying to grind on him in a club.

Ughh I think back to when I was at uni 20 years ago and all the boys on nights out who thought it was totally acceptable to grind up against me, slap/pinch my arse, shove a hand up my skirt for a grope. I just didn’t know how to deal with it back then. I will certainly be teaching my daughters how to assert and protect themselves as they become teenagers. What a misogynistic world we still live in in 2024 😢

Nightclubs are places where people get drunk and maybe take drugs.
They are highly sexualised places, to say otherwise is downright fucking stupid or naive at best.

I am not condoning grinding on anyone but really it's not the same as groping or rape, it might even be considered as a dance move.

If someone grinded on someone in a supermarket then of course it is out of order!!!!!
But context is everything.

This thread is fucking ridiculous

Not one person (so far) has said she should put up with it. No one has said it’s her fault. Coping is not the same thing as putting up. Finding a way of coping could help her to find a way to continue to enjoy nights out / clubbing in the future.

It’s utterly shit that men behave like this, but I can’t see things changing any time soon. No she shouldn’t have to take evasive action, but nothing in your post is of any actual, practical help to the woman in the OP is it?

Say no / move away / tell the bouncer and hopefully he will get kicked out. It’s either that or she doesn’t go out.

When will some men realise this is shit behaviour? Sadly, probably never, so this girl, like every other girl, needs to learn to deliver a very firm “fuck off” and if that doesn’t work, a sweet smile and a swift knee to the balls always does the trick. You cannot rely on your parents, your friends, or some random stranger to save you from creepy weirdos. Learn to save yourself. You shouldn’t have to, but you absolutely do.

What's fucking ridiculous is that you believe that a change of location means someone is entitled to rub their body against yours.

Or the fact that they've drunk alcohol or taken drugs means they are no longer held accountable for their own actions. Others just have to "put up with it".

A young woman should be able to be anywhere without fear of anyone, but particularly men, deciding they are allowed to use any part of themselves to touch any part of her.

No context required.

It is part of life and you have to learn how to deal with it

unfortunately

girls need to learn from a fairly young age to let men know to back off. If she is very shy or scared maybe do a self defence course

sll humans, especially women, need to learn how to assert their boundaries to get through life

Well yes actually I do think it makes one hell of a difference.

So there. Lol.

In any case, we're talking about grinding here which may even considered to be a dance move.

Grinding, etc. is the least of their worries. Urgently talk to her about spiking. A few friends of my dc were spiked in the clubs, and they thought they were safety-aware, savvy alert girls. One ended up in a hospital with partial memory loss. Clubs are seedy places, irrespective of the location and price.

So in your world, women should tolerate being sexually harassed or sexually assaulted in nightclubs, but not in supermarkets?

I'm not sure the law makes any such distinction.

Bollocks to context. People need to behave decently in every context.

Felaku · Today 07:11
Flibflobflibflob · Today 07:04
Theres a difference between someone talking to you and someone deciding they are entitled to rub their body against yours.
Show quote history
Nightclubs are places where people get drunk and maybe take drugs.
They are highly sexualised places, to say otherwise is downright fucking stupid or naive at best.

I am not condoning grinding on anyone but really it's not the same as groping or rape, it might even be considered as a dance move.

If someone grinded on someone in a supermarket then of course it is out of order!!!!!
But context is everything.

This thread is fucking ridiculous

It isn't the thread that is 'fucking ridiculous'

By your logic, she doesn't have to consent to being danced with? Shouldn't she get a choice?

And if we're going with nightclubs being a place where you can choose to touch someone because they just have to accept it, cos it's a nightclub. How about if, following a man deciding he's allowed to rub his crotch against me, I decide that what I really need to do is shove my knee into his crotch? Because I've had a drink and we're in a nightclub where I'm allowed to behave like this.

I can knee him in the balls and not face assault charges, right?

I actually know someone who got drugged.
A 20 year old and his girfriend were at a pub. 3 lads sent her a drink.
She went off wither her friends , he drank the drink.
It was drugged, he woke up in an alley had been beaten up, they actually told him they had intended to assult the girl.
A very kind taxi driver took him to the hospital.
Tell her never accept drinks, never stay anywhere alone.
Always have £30 cash for the taxi, in case you lose your bag, your phone dies and never revisit or accept drinks.

Tell me you are a man on Mumsnet without telling me you are a man on Mumsnet.

Grinding your body up against a woman you don’t know, without any indication that she consents to that, in a club/bar is 100% gross and unacceptable. Predatory behaviour. Never grind on someone again who isn’t your wife/girlfriend.

Grinding is only a dance move for consenting partners….. or a dirty perv without appropriate boundaries.

Felaku,

You seem to have very radical views.
Do you believe that women who visit night clubs are fair game, where as those doing the weekly shop are not?

I have reported him.

Oh go and look up the word context for goodness sake.

I did a self defence course at college, and while it was quite enjoyable throwing the instructor round, it taught me that if nbthe other party knows what's coming and collaborates, it works, and I couldn't remember all the moves. Dad's instructions from when he was in the army I can remember, and have never used, though demonstrated on a friendly guy from the youth club, who forgot the event. Parts have already been mentioned.

1. Knee to groin.
2. Scrape foot down shin. (Works best with army boot or stiletto.)
3. Stamp on foot. (As above.)
4. As he will now be doubled over, put fists together and deliver rabbit punch to back, preferably in region of kidneys.
5. Run.