How do men get away with this?

[leavethingsalone]

My friend's daughter is absolutely stunning (and a lovely modest girl). She's 18. She often gets told by strangers how beautiful she is.

That's all great, but she's recently started going clubbing and has come home upset because of the attention.

Most recently she was dancing and a guy came up behind her and was grinding on her from behind. He wouldn't leave her alone. Luckily her friends saw what was going on and stopped it!

I'm sure this happens to lots of other young women too!

She's (hopefully) off to uni in September and has been looking forward to this, but is now starting to feel unsafe as her parents won't be nearby to look out for her!

When will men realise that this simply isn't appropriate behaviour and that women should feel safe when they are out?

Some really helpful comments here along with some very depressing ones "why hasn't she learned how to cope" - ugh.
She shouldn't have to, and I totally agree with others that men should take a stand against other men to make things better for us and them- nobody should accept that violence and unwanted touching is ok, including on someone else.
But for all the "in my day" comments- I think it's far worse now. It seems almost normalised that men will attack women and where I used to feel safe walking about by myself, running alone at night (on streets, never in the park) I don't think it's as safe now., not that it ever was really but definitely seems worse now.
More predators about, more opportunist men, more women haters.
So sadly she does need to arm herself - maybe teenage stay at home online culture has stopped preparing people as well as by 18 I was well versed in nights out and how to stay safe but nowadays they don't go out as much do they.
As for the stiletto in shin/foot tips- I'd be worried a predator type would get angry and respond with violence back- he'd be furious at being physically hurt and might retaliate- they know it's not appropriate they're just trying their luck and will always play the victim BS "I was only being friendly".
I think shouting "get off me" is pretty clear and would raise others alarm bells which would help her more.
The books and tips PP mentioned sound great too 👍

Exactly! Many's the time I've been tempted to call some terrible attacker, like Wayne Couzens, an animal, but have stopped myself because that's an insult to animals. People like him are WORSE than animals. They're monsters.

Ducks too. Seen it happen.

Although, much as I believe animals are sentient beings, their rational thinking and decision making does differ from humans so it's not quite the same thing. They don't have the capacity to understand consent in the way human brains do.

Knee him in the nuts that'll put an end to his grinding

As a teacher at an all girls school I’m genuinely horrified at how many cat calls they get. One girl who left and is now at uni said now she’s no longer in a uniform the amount of street harassment has died down. Revolting. I’m shocked but just never surprised. I’m becoming such a misandrist!!!

When I was young and beautiful 😂... I broke the nose of a guy like that. He was trying to get too close and I went into defence mode. Broke his nose with the palm of my hand. His wife wasn't best pleased.

I also had a guy on his stag do offer me sex on my hen do... I felt for his bride but I was laughing so hard because he really wasn't anything in any department.

I fail to understand why these types of men think it's my lucky day and why anyone actually dates them either - I mean, someone had actually married the first one!

Tell her to do what a very attractive friend of mine used to do. When they get much too close, smile very sweetly, point to their arm pits and wave your hand in front of your nose. It mortified them and they cleared off sharpish - and it teaches them a lesson too!

I use to go clubing every Fri and Sat and I agree me and my mates love dancing but what makes a man think because im wearing an short skirt that they have an right to put there hand up it or grab my boobs if my tops low its so not on I would never dream of grabbing an man penis but to be fair an few of then need it grabbing and twisting till they cry like a baby.

Pippetypoppity · Today 18:47
Tell her to do what a very attractive friend of mine used to do. When they get much too close, smile very sweetly, point to their arm pits and wave your hand in front of your nose. It mortified them and they cleared off sharpish - and it teaches them a lesson too!

I used to hint heavily at a bogey - pointing 'sereptitiously'. Ended many a conversation.

this behaviour was awful in the 90’s when I was in my clubbing era. It’s unacceptable that this is still a problem now.

i saw these posters on the tube today & I was pleased to see them. It reminds us that this behaviour is not okay. I was a victim of pressing on the train not that long ago. I had had a few drinks & initially didn’t realise the man that kept swaying into me was doing it on purpose. But my husband who was a bit further down the carriage did & stormed down the train & gave him a mouthful.

The only time I have ever seen a woman handle this brilliantly was at a club on my 40th. A man came up behind my friend & tried to grind her. She spun round & yelled at him Who do you think you are touching me? I do not give you permission to touch me. Everyone stopped & looked. He looked uncomfortable & walked off. I guess until all of us feel
able to do this & hold men accountable for their behaviour will it stop.

It is disgusting behaviour but sadly there are some men that just don't get it.

We all have to live in the real world sadly, and I can't see a way out of that.

I have two stunning looking daughters who are always getting male attention. They loathe it in a way I would have shrugged off 30 years ago. 🙁

I saw the title and wondering if you were questioning why men were allowed hit women in the face and win an Olympic medal on the back of it.

This doesn't surprise me. I'm surprised that this girl hasn't experienced it before now.

I took my daughter to the orthodontist recently and he kept telling her how beautiful she is and how lovely her clothes are. While it might well have been in relation to the fact that she needs braces, we were both a bit uncomfortable with the number of times he told her how pretty she was and gestured his hand from her head to her toes several times to emphasise the point.
She is ten.

I’ve not read the full thead but, this is something that has always happened. I’m not saying it should be accepted, please be assured of that. However, I am 53, this happened to me, I’m sure it’s happened to many women. What these women have to do is bloody tell these arsehole men that they’re dicks. To take their grinding and shove it. That what they’re doing is really not attractive and will in no way make these girls drop their knickers!!! Ffs, grow up boys!!

Sadly Fuck all has changed. I can't even remember the amount of times I had males try and put their hands up my skirt and into my knickers when out clubbing. You get used to giving a short sharp elbow to the face.
Yes we shouldn't have to but sometimes it's an only choice.

If it's not a really loud club shouting out why the fuck are you trying to touch me you dirty asshole usually gets a lot of stares and they slink off

Unless it gets them pissy and they start calling you a prick tease, or a whore, slag, frigid etc.

Or my favourite 'its just fucking banter, like anyone would touch you out of choice'

It just makes me sad that 20 years later it seems to be no different

Ugh this gave me a cold shudder. How dare he speak to her and about her like that, especially at her innocent child age.
Tbh I'd find a new orthodontist - he'll be earning a packet off you but you call the shots - and tell him exactly why. Disgusting objectifying a child like that.

Back clubbing when I was younger between 1993-early 2000's I used to shimmy down swift elbow to the balls when I got lads coming up behind me and grinding against worked 85% of the time. Odd couple I used to grab their arm snd have it behind their back with a hands off I didn't asked to be touched.
I obviously given the time period I went clubbing was amongst the era of you know it's going to happen just deal with it where as today I know I'm bringing my daughter up to expect better behaviour but also how to handle herself and bringing my son up to call out this type of behaviour. We can only change if we change the generations after us

Turn round looking furious and shout jeez bl……dy chr….st what the hell do you think you’re doing😡

Sounds like he might possibly be a pedo. Don't leave her alone with him.

I saw this article today (sorry I know DM isn’t popular on MN!) and it reminded me of this post. Great news that some judges do rightly see a drunken man groping numerous women on a dance floor as assault.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13743339/Shame-police-officer-sexually-assaulted-four-women-night-received-award-heroic-acts-bravery.html

All women should be allowed to socialise without fear or unwanted contact that you perpetrated.

You don’t fully understand or recognise why your conduct was so wrong that evening.

‘They were entitled to enjoy their night without harassment and you took that away from them with your drunken sexual conduct.

✊

I used to run a nightclub in the 90s. Our bouncers were trained exactly as you describe and would pluck any offenders out by the scruff of their necks and eject them. Women felt safe in my club 💜

Amazing! We need more managers like you. If staff and security had a zero tolerance policy and banned them, it would stop pretty quick.

This sent me down some peculiar pathways, and going on to why men are wired so they can use their penises as weapons of war - see the IDF. I started by thinking this is a human thing, animals don't rape. But I looked up rape in primates and found a piece in wikipedia on coercive sex, and found that males across the animal range do it, not only dolphins and mallards. It turned into an obscene version of Cole Porter:
Birds do it, bees do it, orangs and chimpanzees do it etc. The reason being that males gain from spreading their wild oats widely, females from carefully selecting one mate who guards his offspring.
So I thought, these men who behave like this haven't really evolved into Homo sapiens, have stuck at Homo rapist. We're lucky that some actually are human, since the rapist behaviour ensures that some of their genetic material is passed on. And like some animals, their behaviour can result in the death of the females, utterly counter productive in the copulation stakes. See mallards, and Indian gangs.
And then it struck me that males, across all species, are rather like parasitic wasps, seeing females (I know, the wasps are female) as prey to be injected with their brood, and not in us recognising women as fellow humans.. So many threads have that idea, we are second class humans, so many threads have the man going off and leaving his family to start another. It's them who are the second class humans, not us. And they are supported by the narrative of surrendered wives in so many religions, by getting the clever ones to tell us to be eaten from within like a caterpillar.
It's a horrid idea I can't get rid of. Like those fish where the male is reduced to a mere appendage hanging on to the female, or the schistosomiasis organism where the male is just a tiny unit stuck to the female.
But so many men are not like this, but not enough. And so many of those see it as their place to support the parasites - those judges who don't want to damage a rapist's life. They've got to see that to be fully human they have to support the women.
I'm obviously going through a dark patch.

You have company in that. Great post.

Sorry but the reason for the elevated rates of violence against men is largely them getting into pub fights with each other.

Totally agree with the teacher pp my dds get worse harassment in their school uniform than when dressed up to the nines 🙄. Dd2 is extremely tall and beautiful (not just me saying it she is repeatedly scouted) and even by 15 has had numerous grim incidents. Feel quite despondent that this will ever end tbh.