To not want children

[aneldermillenial]

Okay, here's the haps: we are 32 & 37 (DH) and married for 4 years.

DH says he wants children and while not explicitly against this, I can't help but feel he doesn't consider this more than 'monkey see, monkey do' - he's one of 5 siblings and the last to have children.

I, on the other hand, think a lot more deeply about it. Here's my thoughts

• i am and enjoy being athletic and competing and know this will take a considerable toll on my body and take my out of competition for a long time
• I'm small - will I be okay? What if something goes wrong and I tear or lose bloody or worse? What if I die?
• I have previously had bad MH, mainly chronic and acute anxiety (sertraline and propranolol) and worry about PP
• I enjoy my career, I earn ~2.5x DH salary and don't love the idea of taking mat leave. I like to give 100% into anything I do, I don't do things by halves, and wonder how I would balance this as I'd need to go back to work
• Our nearest family is 4 hours away so I guess we'd have to spend a lot on childcare and as I'm a type A and feel more secure when I can control a situation feel that I wouldn't love the amount of time in childcare DC would be spending
• Honestly, I like my life as it is and I am so grateful for it (it wasn't always like this). I know it will irreversibly change (as it should) and what if I hate it - I've seen people say they love their DC and wouldn't change them for the world but if they could go back they wouldn't have them... what if that's me? It's not like you can say oh no actually didn't like that and drop your child off at a rescue centre
• I know people say "you're never really ready" and I agree with that mentally and emotionally but I do think you can be more ready practically and financially?
• Does anyone else feel like having DC with people is the ultimate commitment? You buy a house or get married, sure, but if it doesn't work out you never see them again. I've friends who have had DC and broken up, gone on to marry and have DC with others but will always see that person now as long as they live. Kid graduates uni? See your ex. Kid gets married? Top table with your ex. Grandkid born? Bump into your ex at the hospital. I love DH and don't plan on leaving but I can only be responsible for me. I rabbit hole on this sometimes.
• And you can't just have one, I mean you can, I am an only child but I wouldn't want to just have one so you just have to go through all the above again? What?

Anyway, that's just it. I don't think DH considers this beyond envisioning himself chucking a toddler in the air or chucking a ball around. I genuinely thing if roles were reversed and men had to consider the above there'd be a lot less babies but that's just mho

Of course you don’t have to have children if you’re not convinced that it’s the right choice for you. But you do need to tell your DH ASAP.

For me, creating a family was something that I knew I wanted to do, it wasn’t broodiness for a baby per se, it was the family that was important to me. I’d definitely have looked into fostering or adoption if I hadn’t been able to have children.

This isn’t as important to everyone and that’s fine, we’re all different. You need to find out how important it is to your DH though. It may be that he’s making assumptions, because all his siblings have children-or it may be very important to him.

We’re in the opposite situation, no one else in the family chose to have children, just us!

Personally, I didn't just want a baby. I want a child/teenager/grown child, I want to see them grow, help them find their way in the world, I want a family.

@IceCream889 Yes, that was how I felt, I wanted the long-term experience of having a family. That’s what the OP really needs to consider-what does she want in 20/30/40 years?

I would advise you to not have a child. Your life will change, that baby will have to come first. This will cause you to regret that child and resent your husband as all the things you do for you will need to take a backseat - you will mourn your old life and probably blame your husband for wanting a kid.

That baby deserves your unconditional love and full attention, if you cant give them that, don't do it.

They didn't ask to be born - think very hard before you bring a child into this world.

Most men don't want kids that much so it's unfortunate you picked one that does! Make sure he knows the likelihood of him getting lots less attention and affection/sex is very high, I'm sure that'll soon persuade him out of fatherhood. Most married dads seem completely miserable, have him talk to some friends who are dads, I'm sure they'll tell him not to do it!

I also agree he should have a better reason than "I just want one"-we're talking about creating life here, children aren't toys.

It sounds like you don't actually want DC and with that in mind, I would probably tell your DH that in your shoes. It will at least force his hand and make him think through his desire in a more thorough and logical way. If it is something he desperately wants then he needs to help you problem solve around your concerns and IF you feel different following your discussion then I would look to agree a timeline. If you feel that you aren't convinced then you need to work out what that means for your relationship.

I did a lot of endurance sport prior to children, and it definitely did make me feel a little sad that I couldn't compete following the birth of DC1. I ran from 12 weeks PP but the distances were much smaller (approx. 5-10km as opposed to half marathons) and the other more time absorbing sport got replaced by a less exciting version of it. I'm now training for my first long-distance event 10mo PP from DC2. I'm really excited and it really has given me a new level of appreciation for what my body can do.

If you decide to have DC then I would look at way to strengthen your pelvic floor to give yourself the optimum chance of recovery. Sometimes there is nothing you can do when it comes to birth injuries but it pays to give yourself the best chances. As you're athletic, you'll also be giving your body the best chance of a good recovery.

Mental health-wise, if you can afford it, I would organise and agree specific amounts of childfree time for yourself and also make it clear to your DH that any time-expensive hobbies need to be retired if he is so keen for kids (I'm looking at you golf and cycling).

Only you can decide if having DC is worth the hit on your career. Even if you go back full-time off mat leave, you may struggle to be as invested in your career during your DC's early years. It's a hard juggling act. I actually say this as a SAHM but I see that this is unlikely to suit you - but like you, I like to give 100% to something so I decided to drop the career for now and work it out.

I'm really not sure I would have had kids if I didn't have a deep desire to from the get-go. If you don't feel excited about starting a family after talking through all of your concerns with your DH then I would go with your gut.

Exactly.

If the roles were reversed, everyone would be calling him a future faker - and they'd be right.

The trouble is people do just want kids because they want them. You can’t really make any other good logical argument.
If you write all the reasons down not to then it far outweighs the positives on a practical level but some people just want them and that over rides all that and that’s fine.
If that isn’t true for you and you don’t have that feeling then don’t have kids. But you need to have that conversation now that you have changed your mind and if it’s a deal breaker for him then you need to separate or it will slowly rot away.

I honestly wouldn’t if I were you. Unless YOU really want children and actively feel like the lack of them is causing you daily sadness I just wouldn’t recommend it.

I was 26, DH was 32. He ‘really wanted kids’ and didn’t want to be an old dad. I wanted kids too but not for a few years. I was career driven, had studied an extra degree around working and was about to graduate. Felt I had the world at my feet and loved my life tbh.

We had kids. now I’m 31 with a 3&4 year old. Got cornered by circumstance into being a SAHM the entire time while DH is a high earner out of the house 70+ hours a week and I don’t even recognise myself. I never wanted this life but it just happened. Lots of small circumstances where choices had to be made and it was always ‘you have to put the children first and do what’s right for your family’ and before you know it your life has just snowballed into something you never wanted. I love my kids but I wish I could go back to 26 and tell myself it was perfectly fine to say no!

From what you’ve posted it looks like before marriage you told him you wanted to have children, then once married you’ve gone back on this, a bit of future faking to get him to marry you?

I was in a similar situation with ex-DH. I wasn’t overly fussed about having children and nor was he at first. However it got to the point in our lives where friends were starting families and his view changed.

Foolishly I gave in to the pressure, and got pregnant with DS. Had a rotten pregnancy and a difficult birth ending in an emergency c-section. When I phoned my ex at work to say I needed to go to hospital as I was in labour, he said could I not wait as he was busy!

That pretty much set the tone for the next 17 years until I left him. He never did a night feed, took DS to appointments, went to parents evening, sports day, school plays and all the rest of the stuff having a child means. Sure he liked taking DS in to work and being told what a great dad he was. Anything practical and you wouldn’t see him for dust.

Don’t get me wrong, I adore DS and it’s been lovely having him back from Uni this summer. But you will be the one doing all the grunt work and you will be the one whose life will change immeasurably if you do have a child. And it’s perfectly okay not to want that.

I've never even heard of "future faker" before, but no. Firstly, I didn't need to "get him to marry me", I'm the breadwinner, pay majority of our bills and all holiday expenses and take the lions share of the household work too, so all I've gained is all I've wanted which is his love. Also how does that work? He could just leave at any time when the fake future doesn't appear. Regardless, no I didn't lie about having children.

Back then, it felt like it was going to be a natural step for us because that's what we saw as normal - marry, buy the house, have the children, live the chaotic domestic bliss. I could imagine it.

5 years on from those conversations so much has changed in our lives and our circumstances are different. The impact of having children is much greater than we initially discussed (the conversation was like "do you want kids?" And "yes I've always seen myself with kids." Not "how could you support me through the physical and mental toll it would take to bring a child into this world and then the impact it would have on us emotionally, financially, sexually and practically? How much are you willing to sacrifice of yourself?")

I feel that DH may not fully recognise how big this impact would be and it's important to me that we both understand and discuss these challenges thoroughly. I understand the references to the "innate biological desire" to have children, however, that doesn't compromise the need to fully grasp what the entails and not just focus on the fantasy but think about the nitty gritty.

I'm not closed off to having children, however, acknowledging the impact to the woman is much, much greater and I won't be the one in perfect physical health heading back to the office after a couple weeks; taking long lunches, hitting the gym after work and showering at leisure, I would like to have more to consider than "I just want one".

I wasn't sure about having kids, worried I wouldn't love my DC etc, and several other things you describe. I did have 1 child and I've never regretted it. It has been hard sometimes, I had a difficult pregnancy, I've had to sacrifice some things career and fitness wise but for me it has been worth it. You're going to see a lot of negativity about family life on MN as people come on here to moan/ seek advice when things are tough. Not having a child is a totally valid choice, but I think it's important you get a balance of different perspectives so you can decide.

I think if you don't want kids, don't have kids. I also think that it doesn't make sense for you to be the main parent IF you do decide to have dc. As you are the breadwinner it would make sense him to the one who steps back from his job. It is a problem though with your sport - going for leisurely lunches and gym sessions won't be a regular occurance.

From your posts, your husband sounds a bit lazy and unrealistic. Like he's used to getting what he wants and expects other people (you) to facilitate it and put the graft in for him.

Besides the first question of "Do you want children?", the second question is "Do you want children with THIS man?"

And tbh from your posts I'd have reservations. Men don't improve when kids come, they get worse. So if you're already carrying most of the weight in your relationship...

Having re-watched Mrs Doubtful as an adult, I always feel really sorry for the mum in that film. It's fucking annoying being the only adult in the room.

There may be lots of men who don't really care about having children, but there is also a fair sprinkling of those who want them but don't deserve them.

In response to your update OP - you’re totally right that you should think about the reality, practicalities, and go into it with your eyes open. It would be irresponsible not to. But it’s also probably a bit narrow to think only about those things and create a doom and gloom narrative around the idea of children too. It would be what you made it, to an extent.

It sounds like you have serious concerns about your DH’s ability to be a realistic, and a supportive equal partner/parent - an issue you ought to address regardless, as you’ll likely need him to be those things whether you have kids or not. Honestly, it sounds like you don’t respect him much and don’t feel he brings much to the table.

I understand your concerns about the impact of having kids. It sounds like you don’t want them, but I’ll be honest it sounds more like you just don’t want them with him. You seem to be so focussed on the negatives.
I do think your assessment of his merits as a father are unfair though. It’s just different when they are actually here. I am not a morning person, never have been. I suck with lack of sleep. But when you have a little person who needs you, you just manage somehow.
For my family, having kids brought out a whole new side of my DH that I’d never seen before and could never have expected. It was like being with a whole new person. Not that I didn’t love him before, but watching him nurture and absolutely dote on his children made me fall in love with him on an even deeper level.
Equally, I have seen couples that seemed so happy, were together for many years, then had kids and their relationships imploded.
I think you know you likely fall into that camp. But it’s not good enough to put the blame on him and say “he’ll make a bad dad” because you’ve mentioned some very good qualities (playfulness, patience etc.) that could make him a very good dad if he was parenting with the right person.
Just be honest and say you don’t want kids with him and let him go.
And for the record “I want kids because I want them” is a good enough reason, and beats “I want kids because I’m married, financially stable, and it’s what society expects of me”.

Given it already sounds like you contribute more financially AND do most of the housework, I wouldn't. Unless he's willing to be SAHD. He's already not pulling his weight, having a child will make it so much worse

@Allforareason . Tbh that hasn't been my experience, though I'm very, very pleased it's been yours.

I've found that, if the mother is around (different for single fathers of course), fathers tend to divide into 3 categories -

• Those who were shit partners before having kids and are still shit partners.
• Those who were decent partners before kids and are still decent.
• Those who were decent partners before kids, but reverted to caveman type when the baby arrived.

when you have a little person who needs you, you just manage somehow

I love this description, but I'm afraid I mostly recognise it in relation to mums not dads.

That is completely fair enough. I read so much on here everyday that makes me appreciate my partner. He’s not perfect by any means (and frankly neither am I!) but he was always a “family man” long before we even had one.

But OP definitely needs to let her husband go. If he wants kids, he needs to do that or their relationship will be over anyway when they come to resent each other. And a different kind of woman might put up with the things OP doesn’t like about her husband better than she does. One woman’s trash is another woman’s treasure and all that.

It’s obviously ok for you to not want children and it’s a shame that this has only surfaced after you got married but here we are. If your husband does want to start a family then obviously this could be a problem in the future. Men as we know can become fathers at much later ages than women, so he could leave you to pursue this if his desire for a family becomes too strong. You have different visions of the future, both are legitimate, so I probably wouldn’t deride your husband’s perfectly normal desire to become a father. Are you sure you want to continue to live with this uncertainty and the possibility of resentment at the situation building on both sides ? Sounds like a ticking time bomb to me.

It's OK to change your mind when you're really thought about something in detail.

There's not really a sensible logical reason to have children. I want to is about the most sensible answer to the question why does someone want children.

There's a separate conversation about how a child would work practically, financially, childcare etc.

But the core do you want child isn't a logical decision

You clearly don't want children and that's a sensible choice.

But you do really need to be honest and crystal clear that you don't.

And accept that it might mean the end of your relationship

I think OP is getting an unnecessarily hard time here. Should she disrupt her entire life and have a child that she doesn’t really want just because she once thought she might do?!

It sounds like several years of married life, being the main earner and doing all the practical stuff has shown her the reality of what it would be like. Maybe her husband is the “future faker” here - did he discuss with her pre marriage that she’d be expected to do all the grown up practical stuff and subsidise his lifestyle?

She sounds very sensible to me.

OP I definitely wouldn’t have kids with this guy. You’re already doing the lion’s share of the household admin and it’ll just multiply 10-fold if you have a child and you’ll be swamped.

Do you buy presents for his family as well as your own? No way I’d be involved with that shit - that’s a whole world of mental load for which I don’t have capacity (1 kid, almost 5)

We have no family support - live in London and parents live hundreds of miles away and are older anyway. Neither of us has siblings willing to help either. It’s been very tough and has taken its toll on us. That’s been one of the biggest things with which we have struggled as you just get no break unless you pay for it.

You also just sound like you’ll struggle with the reality of being a parent - the A-type personality, the liking being in control (which you’ll no longer be able to be), the inevitable hit on what sounds like a pretty successful career etc…

I think that you have to be prepared to sacrifice a fair amount to have children and sometimes an extreme amount. I think it’s unfair to the child (and to yourself) if you do it without this sacrifice mentality. Children need a lot of resources and attention to be happy and healthy, and you and your DH need to be ready to give that.

I don’t think the risk of serious physical harm or death is the biggest worry with having a child. It’s more the loss of autonomy for decades and possibly more if they have disabilities. You really don’t know what you will get with a child so I think you have to do it out of a strong desire and love for them.

In your situation, I might not have children. You say you don’t like doing things by halves and I’m the same way. But I’ve taken an alternative path of setting myself up to be a very involved mother with no career to speak of and a focus on family. I don’t think it’s a better route, just a different one and strongly dependent on your personal values and goals. The idea of trying to maintain a high-level career while taking care of a family fills me with dread personally.

That said, if your DH is willing to take on more of the domestic work, it might work. My sister is the main breadwinner in her family and her DH does a lot of the day-to-day care of their two children. I have to say that he does complain about having too much to do and never getting time for himself. They also have my parents nearby to help sometimes. Every situation is different, but there are sacrifices no matter what.

There's not really a sensible logical reason to have children. I want to is about the most sensible answer to the question why does someone want children.

There are a number of totally illogical and not sensible ones, like

”I had a shit childhood and I want to prove I can be a better parent than my parents were”

”I don”t want to miss out on the experience/fear possible future regret if I don’t”

”I want to be a proper adult”

“I want someone to love me unconditionally”

And so forth.