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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be embarrassed to be from Hull right now?

494 replies

Chester23 · 03/08/2024 16:09

These "protests" just look like a load of people out for a fight. People on live steams talking about going to get beer and seem to be having a great time.
Causes are lost because of reasons like this? Why would I support you when you are destroying my city? Setting fire to bins? Throwing all sorts at the police. I can't support this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
bergamotorange · 06/08/2024 09:14

The other thing to recognise is just because someone is speaking in their first language doesn't mean they can't also speak English too.

pointythings · 06/08/2024 09:22

Livelovebehappy · 06/08/2024 08:45

We don’t know the backgrounds of the people rioting. They may hold down good jobs, might not be disadvantaged socially or economically. Thugs don’t necessarily equal no job, no house, no prospects. Some might, but equally some might not. Hence some wearing masks. They don’t want identifying to friends, family, employers.

I don't care about their backgrounds. If they're out committing acts of violence, they should be jailed. As for wearing masks - that's just cowardice. If you're going to be a racist thug, just own it.

1dayatatime · 06/08/2024 09:29

@pointythings

"As for wearing masks - that's just cowardice. If you're going to be a racist thug, just own it."

The majority of protesters on the Palestinian protests and at campuses also wore masks. They explained that this was not about hiding their identities but because of a concern about covid especially when surrounded by lots of people at a protest.

Could this be an explanation (or alternatively complete bollocks with both groups seeking to hide their identities)

BIossomtoes · 06/08/2024 09:41

1dayatatime · 06/08/2024 09:29

@pointythings

"As for wearing masks - that's just cowardice. If you're going to be a racist thug, just own it."

The majority of protesters on the Palestinian protests and at campuses also wore masks. They explained that this was not about hiding their identities but because of a concern about covid especially when surrounded by lots of people at a protest.

Could this be an explanation (or alternatively complete bollocks with both groups seeking to hide their identities)

My money’s on complete bollocks.

ArmFromUll · 06/08/2024 10:02

LunaNorth · 05/08/2024 21:11

As a fellow Hullensian, I applaud this post. Hull has had problems for the whole fifty years of my life, immigration or no immigration.

I was driven around Greatfield Estate as a Sociology A Level field trip - to observe the deprivation, believe it or not.

It’s been no bloody Shangri La at any point since World War 2.

Same - only we were taken to Orchard Park!

MrsSkylerWhite · 06/08/2024 10:12

LadyPenelope68 · Today 04:26
WickieRoy · 03/08/2024 16:14
Not just Hull. There's a large protest in my naice seaside town this afternoon. Gutted.

Is this Lytham?

Why on earth would there be a protest in Lytham? The residents are overwhelmingly white? The only black or brown faces you see are holidaymakers and day trippers enjoying the beach.

Livelovebehappy · 06/08/2024 10:24

pointythings · 06/08/2024 09:22

I don't care about their backgrounds. If they're out committing acts of violence, they should be jailed. As for wearing masks - that's just cowardice. If you're going to be a racist thug, just own it.

You did see that my response was in relation to another poster saying the current riots were due to economic and social deprivation? I was pointing out that that’s not necessarily the case for some of the rioters. You’ve taken what I said out of context.

SerafinasGoose · 06/08/2024 11:13

Economic and social deprivation is the cause of a good deal of criminality. That's a recognised correlation, but it obviously depends on the nature of the crime.

Bigotry, far left and far right politics don't necessarily have a socio-economic background, but there is no mistaking this outbreak of violence is ideological.

There are two pogroms today. One is ongoing in Tamworth. There are checkpoints in Middlesbrough to let only white drivers through. There are brown and black people being kicked in the head. There are places of workship being targeted, arson, swastikas daubed on walls.

There is no dressing this up as 'concerns about immigration' or bullshit about 'the silent majority are not being listened to'. There has just been a fucking general election.

What we are experiencing is a resurgence of unmitigated Nazism.

Chester23 · 06/08/2024 19:21

TheSnootiestFox · 05/08/2024 13:33

Not read the full thread so apologies, but I have lived within 20 miles of Hull for pretty much all of my life.

I became ashamed to be from Hull when Libby Squires was dragged off the street by a convicted sex offender from Poland pretending to be a taxi driver, and raped and murdered. When you can't walk down Beverley Rd without feeling you're in a different country, when I used to be scared for my ex husband working on Spring Bank because the kurdish communities would end up fighting between themselves and quite often used knives and he saw this with his own eyes regularly. When my 15 year old son marched in the first parade to mark the freedom of the city this year, was wearing Army cadet uniform and was followed round town by an Asian man shouting 'uniform, uniform' at him and gesturing angrily, and had to hide in Primark and ring his dad to collect him because he was too scared to get the bus home. When the same boy and his friend were physically assaulted (punched in the stomach) near The Deep at the age of 14 by a grown man screaming at them in an Eastern European language. When I took him to see a performance before Christmas at the City Hall and we walked through the city centre at about 10pm and the same boy and his younger brother, then 13 and 15, had a man screaming at them and he leant across the younger one to scream in the older one's face. My sons just kept walking as did I (who was about 10m behind them) because we were terrified, and the older one later said the random man had screamed the same word as the other man that had hit him. We ran it through Google translate and it's the Polish for bastard.

That's when I became ashamed of Hull and my granny who used to speak about how beautiful the place was before the war will be spinning in her grave in the cemetery on Chants Ave to see what's going on today. Now, while smashing up the city and assaulting police officers is indefensible, I am am well educated and articulate enough to be able to express my views in others ways. I know how to write to my MP, to hold a conversation and express a view properly and most importantly I am in a position where I can buy my boys out of needing to go to the city because I can (just) afford to live in the next door market town, send them to the outstanding state grammar school there and pay for them to do activities rather than hang around town. My partner is in a different league financially and lives in a beautiful village in North Yorkshire in a house worth nearly £700k and I ship out there when I've not got the kids and I've just inherited my mums detached cottage on the coast and will be moving there as soon as I've renovated it so I'm even further away from Hull but still within 20 miles.

But imagine you can't. Imagine you're stuck there and the city is full of aggressive foreign people, you're on the waiting list for a house for what seems like forever and your kids are going to a school like Stepney. I volunteered there earlier this year and they wax lyrical about the 39 languages that are spoken there. All I could see is British kids struggling to make progress because of the high amount of kids who can barely speak English and despaired.

You're limited by the education you had (or didn't have) because the schools in Hull have never been great and the jobs you have access to are all low skill, low pay and have 300 people applying for each. The cost of living is biting and you're tired, pissed off and scared for the future in a city you don't recognise any more and then you see a protest organised on Facebook. Because you can't see the far right influence, you come from a culture of drinking in town every weekend becaue there's been nothing else to do since you were a kid, you would have no clue how to write a formal letter to your MP or the police and crime commissioner or maybe even don't know who those people are, you're tired of living in a city you don't recognise and want better for your kids you go, you have a few beers and you listen to the speakers whipping up a frenzy and the next thing you know you're lobbing bricks and the Royal Hotel and being arrested.

I am in no way condoning what went on this week end but I certainly understand it, and for the prime minister to start spouting about how those involved will live to regret it is a national disgrace. He should be asking what the problems are in places like Hull and promising to address them, not berating those who feel so strongly about the loss of a city's identity that they demonstrate and end up being used by organisations like the EDL.

Sorry that's long but I it's something I feel very strongly about and half the people going on about how appalling it is and how the people involved have got the iq of a steak bake would hate to live somewhere like Hull, or Hartlepool or Boro, ans couldn't possibly empathise with those that do.

There are plenty of English people in prison for rape/murder etc. There are plenty of english who intimidate people (the people rioting). Every country has bad eggs.

Have you ever taken the time to get to know any of these foreigners? I have worked with 100s. Yes there are a few who don't want to learn English, these are normally older people, who did make an effort to get someone to translate to speak with me. I know a few younger ones who wouldn't speak English with me even though they could because they were nervous. They spoke their native tongue the majority of the time, did this bother me? No. They did make an effort with me to speak English, even the ones thay struggled. I in fact used to stick up for them when they needed someone to speak for them. I have been on nights out with people from this job multiple times. And again the only people who let this down were English people making comments to them.
I brought one Polish lady from my previous job to my new one. She has a house here. Had hers sons here (who get bullied by English kids for being Polish). She did night lessons to learn English. You know what she said to me the other day "what if people don't like me because I'm an immigrant too?" This broke me.

Nothing justifies what these English thugs have done. Nothing justifies burning hotels and blocking exits with people inside. Nothing justifies looting and destroying our country. I dont want our country "back" after they've torn it down. I understand we have immigration issues but just no to everything that is happening.

OP posts:
ArmFromUll · 07/08/2024 01:42

Well said @Chester23

orangeN · 07/08/2024 02:01

Honestly I'm furious that's why I'm still awake. What I have done to deserve something like this? Why I need to be scared to go out? Where is civilisation ?
I wish these people get heavily punished ! Anyone acting so barbarian no matter what nationality they are needs to be punished!

violetto · 07/08/2024 02:41

I left Hull 13 years ago. I'm truly ashamed of what's gone on here. Not sure what else there is to say, I'm incredibly sad, and not even slightly surprised.

I'm glad my family is now living outside of its boundaries, however.

mathanxiety · 07/08/2024 05:09

Livelovebehappy · 05/08/2024 21:50

It means different things to different people. I can only speak for myself when I say the bare minimum is actually learning the language of the country you’ve chosen to live in. Otherwise the biggest barrier is right there - not being able to speak the language means you can’t integrate because speaking to each other is an integral part of integration. Make efforts to talk to the people you have come to live amongst, rather than wanting to have your own little village with your own people, and being hostile to others around you. Understand and respect our culture. I actually wouldn’t ever expect your aunt not to speak her own language when speaking to her friends and family - that’s part of her identity, as is eating what foods you like.

You've never been to a British enclave (exclave?) In Spain, then...

SerafinasGoose · 07/08/2024 08:39

Chester23 · 06/08/2024 19:21

There are plenty of English people in prison for rape/murder etc. There are plenty of english who intimidate people (the people rioting). Every country has bad eggs.

Have you ever taken the time to get to know any of these foreigners? I have worked with 100s. Yes there are a few who don't want to learn English, these are normally older people, who did make an effort to get someone to translate to speak with me. I know a few younger ones who wouldn't speak English with me even though they could because they were nervous. They spoke their native tongue the majority of the time, did this bother me? No. They did make an effort with me to speak English, even the ones thay struggled. I in fact used to stick up for them when they needed someone to speak for them. I have been on nights out with people from this job multiple times. And again the only people who let this down were English people making comments to them.
I brought one Polish lady from my previous job to my new one. She has a house here. Had hers sons here (who get bullied by English kids for being Polish). She did night lessons to learn English. You know what she said to me the other day "what if people don't like me because I'm an immigrant too?" This broke me.

Nothing justifies what these English thugs have done. Nothing justifies burning hotels and blocking exits with people inside. Nothing justifies looting and destroying our country. I dont want our country "back" after they've torn it down. I understand we have immigration issues but just no to everything that is happening.

I'm really feeling this. For the past two years my project team have been working alongside an 'at risk' researcher from one of the many trouble-spots in the world. She has an elite scholarship, leave to be here, and is doing a job few other people could do (and certainly not those inarticulate thugs we've seen on the news). Over the two years she's been here I've come to really love her. Her family is at risk at home, her house is ruined and her daughter displaced to a university on the continent - none of them knowing exactly how long they can stay. We brought her to a place she thought was safe, now she has to contend with this. I'm furious and distressed in equal measure.

My former research assistant is from India, now here in a permanent position which she earned fully via her own merit becasue she's brilliant. I'm worried for her, too, as I never thought I would be given she's in a supposedly 'safe' country.

I've not lived in Hull for many years. My brother is still there, though, and unavoidably has to be in the flashpoint area first thing this morning. I will not know an easy moment until we've spoken at lunchtime and I know he's safe.

A midlands university has closed a number of its buildings and the ones remaining open will have heavy security.

Is this really Britain in 2024?

Livelovebehappy · 07/08/2024 09:30

mathanxiety · 07/08/2024 05:09

You've never been to a British enclave (exclave?) In Spain, then...

Obviously the same applies there. As in any country you choose to live in. I'm well aware of ex pats creating their own mini England in Spain and absolutely dont agree with it.

ArmFromUll · 07/08/2024 09:53

Livelovebehappy · 07/08/2024 09:30

Obviously the same applies there. As in any country you choose to live in. I'm well aware of ex pats creating their own mini England in Spain and absolutely dont agree with it.

Fortunately the Spanish don't go trying to set fire to hotels with Brits in.

Livelovebehappy · 07/08/2024 10:03

ArmFromUll · 07/08/2024 09:53

Fortunately the Spanish don't go trying to set fire to hotels with Brits in.

They dont. But maybe as the areas the Brits settle in rely heavily on tourism and others for their economy, they are obviously not going to bite the hand that feeds them. They're not draining the resouces over there as generally have their own money.

pointythings · 07/08/2024 10:38

Livelovebehappy · 07/08/2024 10:03

They dont. But maybe as the areas the Brits settle in rely heavily on tourism and others for their economy, they are obviously not going to bite the hand that feeds them. They're not draining the resouces over there as generally have their own money.

Your assumption that immigrants are a drain on resources is telling.

Livelovebehappy · 07/08/2024 10:48

pointythings · 07/08/2024 10:38

Your assumption that immigrants are a drain on resources is telling.

Currently immigrants coming through are a drain on our resources (not all). It’s not cheap housing them in hotels for months/years whilst being processed. Not their fault, fault of previous government, but still an obvious drain. Housing we don’t have, NHS servicing too many people. Unvetted immigrants now going to be let onto our streets by the Labour government granting amnesty, presumably need housing, May have criminal records where they come from, which might impact crime and potentially prisons. Just stating the facts here.

TheSnootiestFox · 07/08/2024 11:57

SerafinasGoose · 07/08/2024 08:39

I'm really feeling this. For the past two years my project team have been working alongside an 'at risk' researcher from one of the many trouble-spots in the world. She has an elite scholarship, leave to be here, and is doing a job few other people could do (and certainly not those inarticulate thugs we've seen on the news). Over the two years she's been here I've come to really love her. Her family is at risk at home, her house is ruined and her daughter displaced to a university on the continent - none of them knowing exactly how long they can stay. We brought her to a place she thought was safe, now she has to contend with this. I'm furious and distressed in equal measure.

My former research assistant is from India, now here in a permanent position which she earned fully via her own merit becasue she's brilliant. I'm worried for her, too, as I never thought I would be given she's in a supposedly 'safe' country.

I've not lived in Hull for many years. My brother is still there, though, and unavoidably has to be in the flashpoint area first thing this morning. I will not know an easy moment until we've spoken at lunchtime and I know he's safe.

A midlands university has closed a number of its buildings and the ones remaining open will have heavy security.

Is this really Britain in 2024?

Edited

You haven't lived in Hull for many years yet you attempt to patronise someone who didn't just take their university education and run? I will listen to you and your opinions on the downfall of Hull when you come back and see what's going on here on a daily basis and if you're that bothered about the place then feel free to come back and do something to help.

Most people do what you do and spout forth about Hull and it's problems from the other end of the M1/other side of the world and that is part of the problem. And those that are left are branded inarticulate thugs purely for not having the same life chances that you've had 🙄 your brother will be fine btw, it's Queen Victoria Square and Ferensway we're talking about, not Gaza.....

pointythings · 07/08/2024 12:01

Asylum seekers, which is the group you are talking about, are only a small % of the immigrants coming to the UK. Please send me a link about an amnesty, because I have seen no policy around this, just speculation from people with an anti immigrant perspective.

'May have criminal records' is more speculation, and scaremongering too.

I see you.

Chester23 · 07/08/2024 12:06

TheSnootiestFox · 07/08/2024 11:57

You haven't lived in Hull for many years yet you attempt to patronise someone who didn't just take their university education and run? I will listen to you and your opinions on the downfall of Hull when you come back and see what's going on here on a daily basis and if you're that bothered about the place then feel free to come back and do something to help.

Most people do what you do and spout forth about Hull and it's problems from the other end of the M1/other side of the world and that is part of the problem. And those that are left are branded inarticulate thugs purely for not having the same life chances that you've had 🙄 your brother will be fine btw, it's Queen Victoria Square and Ferensway we're talking about, not Gaza.....

I mean will he be safe? Will these immigrants not get him? Not make him feel safe? This is what your previous comment was saying. Its dangerous because of these immigrants

OP posts:
TheSnootiestFox · 07/08/2024 12:17

Chester23 · 07/08/2024 12:06

I mean will he be safe? Will these immigrants not get him? Not make him feel safe? This is what your previous comment was saying. Its dangerous because of these immigrants

Don't you dare mock my lived experience of my child being assaulted by an immigrant in the city of Hull.

The protestors that the other poster is so bothered about would not be a risk to either my son or the poster's brother. I would stake my pension on that. Honestly, if you are too dense too see what's going on in the UK and why many people have concerns about immigration then please don't bother engaging with me on here. I repeat, again, I don't condone the protests but I sure as hell understand where they've come from.

SerafinasGoose · 07/08/2024 12:22

Chester23 · 07/08/2024 12:06

I mean will he be safe? Will these immigrants not get him? Not make him feel safe? This is what your previous comment was saying. Its dangerous because of these immigrants

I currently live eight miles down the damned road. Not that that's any of your business whatseover.

My fears for my relative's welfare are because (and if you live locally you'll know this), there are Nazi riots planned for today. This lunchtime. It's the thugs who make me fear for his safety. Not the immigrants. The 'inarticulate thugs', as you so aptly call them, who trashed the city centre only days ago and who are both local and bussed in from elsewhere.

I've been living in a village which has an asylum seeker's hotel. There was a fuss kicked up when they were moved here, including by our not-so-delightful fossil of an MP.

They have not caused one speck of trouble between the time of their arrival and leaving a couple of months ago. The residents of this village have barely known they were here.

Your prejudices, I am afraid, are just that.

Edited to say that @Chester23 - I was replying to your reply to @TheSnootiestFox - not taking issue with your response to them, with which I agree.

pointythings · 07/08/2024 12:23

TheSnootiestFox · 07/08/2024 12:17

Don't you dare mock my lived experience of my child being assaulted by an immigrant in the city of Hull.

The protestors that the other poster is so bothered about would not be a risk to either my son or the poster's brother. I would stake my pension on that. Honestly, if you are too dense too see what's going on in the UK and why many people have concerns about immigration then please don't bother engaging with me on here. I repeat, again, I don't condone the protests but I sure as hell understand where they've come from.

My oldest lives in a very multicultural large town. She has experienced many instances of sexual and other harassment. All without exception from white British men. The problem here is men.