to say women don't have XY chromosomes?

[taylorswift1989]

Seeing a lot of posts on social media with people admitting they were "wrong" to call Imane Khelif a man, and that they now understand "she's a woman with XY chromosomes."

Am I going insane? A person with XY chromosomes is male! (Regardless of how they identify, of course.) Why are people saying stuff that is obviously nonsensical? Are people really that ignorant of basic biological facts?

@Bambooshoot

“Again, I ask, why is it the women that have to shift up and make room for these utterly gross, deluded (and/or) calculating individuals?”

I hope you really don’t mean to say such harmful things. You know nothing about this person, only what you’ve assumed. You recognise life must be hard for a person whose sex doesn’t appear straight forward for other people.

“Their disorder is no doubt hugely traumatic for them”

I imaging the trauma for them lies in the unkind assumptions or lies and utterly horrible things said about how they look, and having their body made fun of and their crotch cross-examined and discussed over multiple threads. It’s disgusting.

I get there is debate to be had, but there is no need for the utter hate spewing here.

Unwatching.

C'mon ladies, I believe in you.

If you just try hard enough I'm confident you can beat men who have a physical advantage and if you don't win it's not because the playing field wasn't level it's because you weren't good enough and that should motivate you to train harder.

Please GTF with that misogynistic bullshit.

*Why have you brought PCOS into the discussion at all then?

@Helleofabore*

I didn't . I responded to someone and you you barrelled in.

Ha Ha That would be Exosex I think. Endosex must be when you keep your actual sex private and hide it inside you, much like this boxer and his 'external ovaries'

I think fifty eight posters mentioned this already.

Yes, it’s unhelpful to those of us - including me! - who want to make what should be a really straightforward argument: make people shouldn’t compete with female people in sports, and certainly shouldn’t be punching them.

Gotchas about clothes, hair, or jawlines don’t help women who present in a masculine way, or who are hounded for not looking feminine enough.

Mumsnet is a cesspool of hate. I have seen nothing like it since before the Incel community on Reddit was shut down. It is vile.

You don't thnk people that knowingly cheat are either gross, deluded or calcluating? I do.

I have listened to a few you tube videos about this and apparently she has internal testicles and normal levels of testosterone. Also according to the same sources she has gone through a male puberty. Interestingly there is a woman on you tube who I had read an article about who has a vagina albeit the canal is slightly shorter than normal and when she didn't stay her periods tests were done and internal testicles were found. She has xy chromosomes and has been told by experts in genetics that she is biologically male.

Because irrespective of what was decided at birth it became clear in time that female puberty didn’t occur and that androgenisation did. This would have been a clue that the earlier interpretation had been erroneous.

In almost all circumstances male sport pays better than female sport, from prize money to sponsorship. Why would you enter the female category of you could cut it in the male category and rake in the cash?
If women could compete against elite men then they would try for the bigger prizes in the male sector.

Quite.

This is not complicated at all. Men should not be in womens sports. If testing is required to ensure that, so be it. If there is ambiguity then medical experts take the call. Everything else is unhelpful distraction.

Some awful misinformation on this thread. Please stop descending into genetics like you have a clue.

Sex chromosome abnormalities are really common and a common cause of infertility. People can be X0 (turner), XX, XY, XXX, XXY and it goes on.

Female is the default developmental pathway. If you don't get or can't respond to the male signal, female external development happens. So even if you have a Y chromosome, if you can't respond to the male signal it sends, or have androgen insensitivity etc then you will develop female genitalia, and really don't go through a male puberty. These people don't even find out until they can't conceive. Just because the testosterone is there doesn't mean they can respond to it.

The people on the committee who make decisions will include people much more placed to make judgements than random people on mumsnet. They will have specialist knowledge and all the facts.

From what I can see a lot of left oriented people (I know it's a generalisation) have an antipathy to competition so strong that it will always get them behind anyone that is out with the normal rules, and despite their loathing of competiveness they can't over come their own desire to win an argument for their designated underdog.

Because irrespective of what was decided at birth it became clear in time that female puberty didn’t occur and that androgenisation did. This would have been a clue that the earlier interpretation had been erroneous.

And just like that, you switch. Or your child switches.

Very straightforward.

That had to come up sooner or later, it's the Dawn Butler theory isn't it!

Oh yes,and a big old 'F' on his passport.

Yes and those specialists thought the only fact they needed to consider was the sex marker on a passport.

You'll forgive me for not having confidence in their expertise.

This is a very rare example of a grey area. Should she be competing in women's sports? No, as the testosterone advantage is unfair and dangerous. Should she be allowed in women's toilets and private spaces? Yes.

She has a vagina. She isn't a rape threat, to put it bluntly. This is clearly a woman, despite the very rare chromosome situation. But as for sport side of things, no, that isn't okay for the above reasons

Agree.
Khalif stated in an interview that they did not go through female puberty.
No periods, breasts, nothing.
Khalif also stated they have internal testes and no vagina.

It has been reported they have XY chromosomes.

Therefore Khalif is intersex.

Much like the three medal winners in the womens 800m Rio Olympics ( using the same form of so called testing that the Paris Olympics are using ). All winners were intersex, no women won a medal in the womens race.

People with higher levels of testosterone and XY chromosomes, even if they have been raised female ( through no fault of their own ) have an unfair physical advantage over XX women and should not be allowed to compete in womens sports. Mens sports are available for all. They would not be prevented from competing in a category that aligns better with their post puberty biology

He didn't have to do it. I imagine the money must have persuaded him. Has it persuaded you too?

However, we need to look behind them at the whole sporting structure that thought this was ok
Because of a number of uneducated posters on a well know feminist forum?

No definitely not. The biologists, geneticians, and sport expects can discuss this between themselves. Anyone else has absolutely no say in the matter.

The boxers who have sparked this debate quite clearly can and have responded to testosterone. We aren’t blind and can still see through all the gaslight.

The people on the committee who make decisions will include people much more placed to make judgements than random people on mumsnet

They are using F on the passport, and as we are all aware by now, in many countries it’s very easy to get the sex marker on your passport change by self ID. Do you think it’s reasonable that men can self ID as women to enter the women’s category in sports? Apparently the IOC does.

Apologies.
I should have noted, Khalif has no uterus! ( not vagina )

No way should he be in women's toilets and private spaces.