There's absolutely nothing wrong with iPad at the table at a restaurant after a child centric day

[moomoomouseey]

Imagine a day, filled with child friendly activities on holiday. Think beach, biking sandcastles, swimming together, pool, diving, playgrounds, reading books together, drawing, child centred show in the evening, fun fair, trampoline jumping.. etc etc..

At the end of all this, you go out for a meal. You bring crayons and paper etc and other toys, but after a while, your children are restless and bored but you want to enjoy your meal. You get out the iPads with headphones and let your kids watch for a bit/ play educational games, while you enjoy your meal in peace.

Some judgy judgerpants walks past and thinks you're a bad parent.

Kids are 2 and 4 or 3 and 5.

With an AI hotel while there is no wait you are spending usually a week in an unfamiliar environment and eating in a restaurant 3x per day, often with active and potentially overstimulating activites between

On holiday everything can get a bit much so I can understand using them more on hol - much harder to have a quiet meal in the room

Why are all the activities over stimulating?, and aren't screens over stimulating?

@Allfur
Whenever we've been away my son has often found it a bit overwhelming, particularly the first day.

New environment, swimming pool, new parks, often late nights. So a slightly overwhelmed toddler, plus tired and eating in a restaurant 3x per day every day for a week.

Sometimes at the end of the meal we would let him watch something for 10 minutes to give us a chance to actually finish our food.

The right show can be calming they are not all overstimulating. If you were to watch TV in the evening - like many adults do - would you say this was overstimulating for you?

I was born in the mid 80s. I guess I grew up in a very different setting to your kids because I don’t recognise your depiction of 90s/00s parenting at all! My parents and my friends’ parents were very engaged with us all. DH (same age) remembers his Dad pitching cricket balls for hours and hours for him and his brothers. We did have more freedom in terms of playing out than a lot of kids do now but it was very much choice to go out, not being sent. We weren’t allowed much TV but when we were it was very much specific shows - Blue Peter, a BBC adaption of The Borrowers - we’d all tune in as a family and watch together. Not just YouTube video after YouTube video. Obviously no tech in restaurants and I don’t really recall bringing colouring etc either, though maybe we did and I just don’t remember.

Another poster has made the point on this thread that there’s a world of difference between the tech that your kids would’ve consumed as children and what we have now - which is kids playing games and watching videos that are literally built to be addictive, on personal devices that often rarely leave their side (I work with kids - NT kids - whose parents literally bring their iPads to school pick up so they can have it straight away).

Unless there is some abusive behaviour going on that you witness, people who even give a second thought to how other people parent are just dicks. Ignore them. Screens are just the modern equivalent of books/sticker books/colouring etc. Activities like reading, drawing etc can now be done on a screen. It makes you no better or worse than anyone else who brings things to a restaurant to keep children entertained. I live in Spain and many restaurants are close to a play area, so parents can take their kids there and they play when they get bored. They also use screens too and no one here even bats an eyelid.

But you have no idea what they are watching. It might be the Sound of Music.

The earliest memories I've got of being taken out for a meal as a child in the 70s were to cafes, the kind of places where you'd get served reasonably quickly and so not over-extend my youthful attention span. When I got a bit older we did go to "proper" restaurants (such as they were in a 70s suburban town) but we always went early, never hung around for too long and were absolutely expected to act like everyone else in the place.

That being said when my dad took my brother and I out by himself then, yes, we'd often be abandoned in a pub's crappy "family room", or even in the back of his car with a bottle of coke and a packet of crisps, while he had a few pints with his mates. And, yes, I judge the hell out of him for that.

Oh do unclench. If you want to start a spag pedant thread go ahead.

This judgy thread is about lax parents not being arsed to parent. Kids should be able to sit and interact with actual people when they are eating. Thing is many parents find their dc boring and they cba interacting with said dc. Still, as long as they've had non stop child centric activities so what if no-one has any social skills.

This thread feels like it has descended far beyond what the OP actually was asking about, which is allowing kids to have tablets for a very small amount of time at the end of a day when they have had lots of quality time with parents and screen-free activities.

It's sad to see so much judgement and condescension. Screens and technology are made such a scapegoat, and parents who use them being demonised or criticised automatically is ridiculous. For a start, screen time comes in many forms - to say that a child playing an educational game (as the OP stated) or doing digital art, or reading an e-book is purely harmful and inappropriate is frankly ridiculous.

Parenting isn't a snapshot; it's a big picture. And if you think for a second that you can understand that big picture by simply seeing a child looking at a phone or tablet then perhaps you need to re-evaluate, because no mere mortal has that power. So if you believe that you do and are entitled to make judgements as a result, something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.

Plenty of parents over the years have managed to ignore, neglect, or otherwise damage their child long before these devices were around, and plenty now manage it while sitting on their high horse believing they are better in some way because they wouldn't allow their child to watch a video after a meal. If these people take the same harsh and judgemental attitude towards their children as they do to other mothers and probably beyond, and also teach their child to treat people this way by example, then I would argue that in the long term that is far more damaging than a few videos on the iPad.

I will never understand why people on here and elsewhere on the internet respond to a post which is openly asking for constructive feedback, therefore showing that the OP is being thoughtful and is open to opinions, by trying to tear that person down, make them feel like a bad parent or talk to them as if they are stupid. Again, if doing that makes you feel good and better about yourself in some way then perhaps you need to re-evaluate. There are enough people in this world putting down mothers and women in general without us doing it to eachother.

The fact you thought to ask the question shows that you care and are reflective, @moomoomouseey so please don't let some of the negative responses here make you think otherwise or cause you to doubt that. I'll bet you are doing a great job!

' I will never understand why people on here and elsewhere on the internet respond to a post which is openly asking for constructive feedback'

You've answered your own question, the op has asked for opinions, so what 'will you never understand' about that?

There is a time and place for tech and gadgets and sat around a table with family eating is not it.

I think there are several reasons

1. ignorance- they hear the screen=bad message but lack the knowledge and critical thinking skills to contextualise the discussion.

2. they are insecure in their parenting (and themselves in general), therefore they find anyone doing things differently to them knocks their confidence which makes them angry.

3. they are forced to keep up the rules with their children who question why they can’t have screens, and they would rather not have to keep having the argument (so they resent everyone else for not following the rules they made up, thereby making their life more convenient).

Do you think that those who are so vehement in this thread about how it's totally fine for their children to have screens when out at restaurants are also insecure about their parenting? Maybe they, too, are getting angry because they're discovering that other parents do things differently?

Or is that a character flaw only of those who think using screens is not a great way to deal with the situation?

After all, if OP was completely confident in her choices then why start this thread?

@Janiie

"There is a time and place for tech and gadgets and sat around a table with family eating is not it."

Perhaps if you and others of similar mindset presented your opinions as opinions then this argument would stand. However, it is stated as fact and in a way which only serves to make the OP feel in some way ashamed or like they are objectively in the wrong, which isn't the case.

Not one person on here has the 'solution' to parenting and has it all figured out. In fact, in my personal life experience, people who think they have all the answers are often the ones making the most and the worst mistakes, because they often seem to lack the introspection and reflection needed to recognise where they could improve.

It is possible to share an opinion without tearing someone down, being condescending or speaking as though your word is law. It's nice to be nice, and I just think more on here could try it.

It's fine to disagree, but there's a big difference between doing so constructively and with good intentions and doing so in a way that makes people feel bad for asking. Perhaps these people see it as their job to educate the rest of us, but that seems to be based on an assumption that they know categorically what is and isn't OK and are in a position to judge. And I question what kind of character traits lead to people thinking that way quite honestly. Asking for opinions does not equal asking people to judge. They are not one and the same in my mind.

I feel like I don't know what I'm doing most of the time as a parent, and I'm glad. Because that means I am actually thinking things through and that I care. I will let my daughter be the judge of that, not arbitrarily created standards set by members of an online community who seem unconcerned with expressing their views in a polite and respectful manner.

If they are like me then they have no need to feel insecure on that point-

I have a child who has always had access to screens in restaurants etc therefore I have the evidence of its effects.

It hasn’t stopped him learning to eat/sit/converse/use manners/be bored/order food etc- I see him using those skills daily

(within the constraints of his disability- being entirely still or silent is difficult for him at this stage due to his asd stimming, and using cutlery is messy for him due to his physical disability- but he can stay in his chair, hold a conversation and use a piece of cutlery in a restaurant for the length of a meal without a screen. He can ‘be bored’ in the car without a screen for 3 or so hours without having a meltdown etc).

I’m not saying having a screen in a restaurant sometimes WON’T cause those issues, I’m saying it demonstrably HASN’T caused them.

@HowardTJMoon

I believe my post referred to people thinking they know the whole picture from a snapshot, and also people expressing their views in a way that is condescending or tears others down.

It follows that I don't believe it's useful or particularly nice for anybody to be doing this, regardless of 'sides'. However, my original purpose in that comment was to point out that the discussion had kind of lost its way and offer some support and encouragement to the OP, hence why it was focused on particular examples.

I am simply not willing to spend the rest of my day getting into arguments of the very nature I was expressing concern about. I said my piece and I tried to say it in a constructive way and explain myself. One of the points I made was that I felt if people chose to speak that way to others online maybe they should re-evaluate and think about that. If those people read my post and then choose to respond to it in the exact same way, then it has fallen on deaf ears and I will choose not to expend more energy on it. It isn't my responsibility to ensure that other adults conduct themselves a particular way - that is ultimately their choice to make. I personally don't think it's a great choice to make, but that's just my opinion.

Yes the OP wasn't confident. People have the option to respond to that compassionately or not. I just feel like which people choose is kind of a reflection of them. It isn't in my mind an open invitation to speak to someone however you like and put them down, and I question why some people seem to see it that way. Perhaps there needs to be more thought around it.

That is the point I was making, which I do not think is unreasonable.

"If you are sat in a restaurant with your kids clued to their phones or tablets everyone around you is judging your very lazy parenting and your bad mannered kids."

No only the miserable ones in miserable company.

@Theoldlife

Some really thoughtful insights there into possible explanations. I think you could possibly be onto something there.

@Noneofyournonsense

I think there is some truth to that some people will see it that way. However, I think we sometimes have a tendency to believe everybody else is thinking the way that we ourselves do.

I often see things out and about, isolated moments of parenting that are outside of what I would consider to be ideal. However, provided that these aren't abusive or cause for alarm, I can tell myself that I do not know that person and their life. I do not know their child and their needs. I also do not know, as nobody does, what the ultimate 'right' answer is. In truth, if we were all judged purely on our worst moments or on days when we are simply running on empty and perhaps drop our usual standard, then I doubt the majority would paint a pretty picture.

At any moment, somebody could be having the worst day of their life and just need a moment of respite and you would have no idea. Hence why I feel that sitting judging others for things that feel very small in the bigger picture isn't the best idea.

And even if they aren't having the worst day, I don't see them the rest of the time and so really wouldn't know what I was talking about were I to judge them on some criteria based on my own biases.

YES
Kids NEED to be bored - it’s when imagination flows !

As for strangers’ tuts try to ignore - everyone has an issue with something !

I actually totally agree with this. I think it is so very, very important for children to be bored.

But I think this is valuable on a summer’s afternoon, when they are turned out into the garden to amuse themselves for an hour, on a winter Saturday morning when they are left to play their room after breakfast. It’s a crucial time for development of resourcefulness and the fostering of imagination. Too many parents feel holidays and weekends must be packed with structured activity: football training , swimming lessons, gymnastics. Rush them out of the door; the sooner on a Saturday, the better the parenting.

But why during dinner? They’ve eaten, they are tired, the parents want to linger. What is achieved by making them bored at this point? Boredom isn’t for boredom’s sake. It’s because boredom in the garden on a summer’s afternoon becomes the moment when the child-size gap in the underside of a hydrangea bush is turned into a tea shop, with leaf plates and the little baby leaf tufts that look like fairy lettuces as food. Or a Saturday morning in winter is when their bedroom is turned into a borrowing library for teddies, or they discover that pressing coins on their ink pad and then on paper leaves an imprint that can be cut out to make jewellery.

But sitting at a table … that’s boredom for boredom’s sake.

Great post. And pretty much what I said earlier. The smug and judgemental posters on here, who think that they are soooo superior (and much better parents,) because they never let their DC use any portable tech, (allegedly!) are so tedious and dreary and annoying.

I CBA to engage with them anymore. Anyone who thinks it's 'bad parenting' to let your child use a tablet for one or two hours a few times a week, (or as entertainment after a meal in a restaurant to keep them occupied,) needs to give their head a wobble, get a grip, and get a life. Frankly, I couldn't give a shiny shite what the judgy articles think of me, but clearly the OP - and some other parents DO care, and DO take the comments to heart.

As you said, some parents are shit parents who neglect and ignore their children, and as long as they're fed, and still breathing, they think that's their job done as a parent. Yet some people on here are trying to make out parents getting an ipad/video game/TV to entertain their children sometimes (whilst they have a break) is bad parenting. LOL! Give over FFS! You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. 😆

And no, kids don't NEED to be bored as a pp said. What a daft comment!

We’re in complete agreement about the benefits of boredom but these really can flourish anywhere. I remember once waiting in an interminable queue at a rental car place with my then 2 and 4 yos and they used the time to invent a new world which they would then frequently ‘travel’ to - for months and months afterwards. That might never have happened if we hadn’t been stuck at Avis for an hour one Christmas holiday!

That’s lovely . Unfortunately our dc are like me and my siblings and normally those sorts of “ public boredom” instances make us giggly and naughty. I remember waiting hours ( jet-lagged) for a flight at an airport and the game was “ what do you think the passer -by’s name is?” Of course they were all unflattering and in time it degenerated to what would be the noise of them farting : “ oh hers would be silent and violent!” Etc. 😏

@Janiie

Thank you for proving my point about condescension by posting this comment.