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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Explain to me like I’m 5!

153 replies

MyOtherHusbandIsAWash · 01/08/2024 20:28

Why are people in Hartlepool and London rioting following the horrific Southport stabbings? I understand it seems to be the far right but what are they actually rioting about? I genuinely don’t understand-the news doesn’t seem to say an actual agenda. What do they want?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
BlondeFool · 01/08/2024 22:55

@cupcaske123 Thanks. I'll check the news. On a news blackout as I find it so depressing and upsetting.

Racist, ignorant fools.

NotSoHotMess24 · 01/08/2024 22:55

@brightyellowflower At least I read to the end of your post 😂And I understand the point you are making, despite also not personally agreeing with the sentiments you describe.

StupendousConfectionary · 01/08/2024 22:55

brightyellowflower · 01/08/2024 22:36

I know lots of people who get privately angry/frustrated about old British culture being eroded. Watch even the main news and almost every presenter is not white. You would be forgiven for thinking that non white made up the majority of the country yet it doesn't so why are they disproprotionally represented? You can guarantee any advert now shows a black family/Muslim family. I'm just watching the news now and haven't seen a white person yet. Of course, we're doing the same with lesbian/gay/transgender too at the moment. It's almost as if you're not allowed to be white and heterosexual anymore. In my last job I was told I had to recruit the person with an ethnic background - I said, I was going to recruit the best person for the job - no, you will recruit that person as we have a diversity box to tick. Why so much positivity discrimination against whites?

Why are primary schools not allowed to be Christian anymore? Why can't they sing Christian hymms? Why has the traditional Xmas play for kids disappeared in case we offend someone? Why do they not say prayers anymore?

Why has yet another huge mosque been built in my town yet my local Christian church can't get the funding to replace the beautiful stained glass windows?

Add in hotels being taken over by immigrant men who no one knows the background of yet they seemingly are given higher priority than our own in poverty...

Can people really not see how all this is boiling over? Seriously?

So many people on MN living in places where their idea of multiculturalism is the fact a highly paid Doctor lives next door. Try living in a place where being white is now the minority as white British Christian culture is eroded (Dewsbury, Bradford, Bury for example) but of course so long as it's not happening in your back yard. People I know ask why immigrants can't simply integrate - why do they insist on building communities and all 'sticking together' in one place, buying more and more properties as more and more of their relatives arrive. Why do we allow arranged marriages for eg and why do women who want to live in Britain and be British walk around covered head to toe in black, why move somewhere to be 'free' and then carry on as you were..

I'm not saying these are my views btw. I'm saying what I hear regularly. I know a lot of very racist people, mainly an age thing too, older people. Someone on my FB shared a video from Youtube on Tommy Robinson. Quite shocking to listen to but we can't just ignore that it's a small minority who feel this way. I was shocked by the video but more shocked that I was the only person who commented he doesnt' speak for me.The government does need to listen for everyone's sake. I don't know what the solution is. FWIW the Muslims I know are just lovely brilliant people.

Show quote history

@brightyellowflower Regarding your last paragraph: I'm not saying these are my views btw. I'm saying what I hear regularly. I’ll answer these points as if I am replying to someone who do hold these views.

Watch even the main news and almost every presenter is not white.

I’m watching BBC Look North right now and the two presenter are both white. I’m not sure what your point is though, what is not being white got to do with our culture?

You can guarantee any advert now shows a black family/Muslim family.

Again, I’m not sure what skin colour has to do with our culture?

Of course, we're doing the same with lesbian/gay/transgender too at the moment. It's almost as if you're not allowed to be white and heterosexual anymore

Please share some evidence from credible sources which suggests British citizens are not allowed to be white or heterosexual.

Why are primary schools not allowed to be Christian anymore? Why can't they sing Christian hymms?

Again, please share some evidence from credible sources that back up this claim.

Why has yet another huge mosque been built in my town yet my local Christian church can't get the funding to replace the beautiful stained glass windows?

You’ll have to ask your local priest/vicar and the local Imam if you’re interested in their individual finances.

Why do we allow arranged marriages

Arranged marriages are legal in the UK. However forced marriages are not. If you know any vulnerable women, from any ethnic background that is victim of a forced marriage please work alongside some charities (such as Karma Nirvana) and do all you can to help if this is what you are passionate about.

why do women who want to live in Britain and be British walk around covered head to toe in black

What is wrong with dressing head to toe in black? Or are you referring to niqabs, hijabs, chadors etc.? If so, these women are perfectly within their rights to wear these traditional dresses. Again, if you know of any vulnerable women who may be forced into these clothing against their will please work alongside charities such as Karma Nirvana, Amina, Women’s Aid etc.

Alltheyearround · 01/08/2024 22:56

SilenceInside · 01/08/2024 22:51

@brightyellowflower are the people saying these things that you've heard really so dim that they can't understand that a mosque is built because people want it and are funding it. The church windows aren't being funded because no one goes to church regularly and no one wants to pay for it?

And schools do still do Xmas nativity plays. I can't think of a single school where they don't. And they don't sing Christian hymns any more or say prayers because the numbers who go to church are dwindling to nothing and most children are from families with no religion.

It's just wilful ignorance and lack of personal responsibility.

Although I am not a Christian, I did notice that our local church (very much a church used by all the community from services and community choir practice to T'ai Chi classes) raised enough money to mend their (big steeple) roof this year. Obviously a well loved local institution by believers and non-believers (and those in between). I felt quietly pleased to see that.

Fivebyfive2 · 01/08/2024 22:58

@brightyellowflower also if you want to moan about how schools are (apparently) not Christian enough these days, why not check out one of the many threads we see on here where (British) parents wrangle their kids into Catholic/C of Schools because "they're nicer" but then complain about they don't want their children "indoctrinated" into crazy, out of date religious practices because they're all actually atheist and have issues with the church...Oh wait, that wouldn't fit your narrative that everyone is trying to be a good, church going Christian if only it wasn't for all these "others" coming here and eroding "our culture" and somehow stopping us attending church, would it.

ghostyslovesheets · 01/08/2024 22:59

I was raised Christian, my mum (mad lefty do-gooder) is a Christian and my eldest daughter has just decided to become Christian - all of us condemn hate, have an interest in other religions and their communities and don't equate being Christian with being British - Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the little donkey were all refugees after all!

I am amazed at the amount of 'patriotic Christians' who have never been to church and don't understand the basic teachings of love, care and understanding

Fivebyfive2 · 01/08/2024 23:01

ghostyslovesheets · 01/08/2024 22:59

I was raised Christian, my mum (mad lefty do-gooder) is a Christian and my eldest daughter has just decided to become Christian - all of us condemn hate, have an interest in other religions and their communities and don't equate being Christian with being British - Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the little donkey were all refugees after all!

I am amazed at the amount of 'patriotic Christians' who have never been to church and don't understand the basic teachings of love, care and understanding

Thank you!! Agree 100%

WittyFatball · 01/08/2024 23:02

The thing is, if you are an averagely intelligent person with a good family and a decent home and a job and generally content with your life, you are not watching Tommy Robinson videos, ranting about Christmas and kicking off outside random mosques.

These are people who are struggling or inadequate on some level and need to find an easy target to blame for their woes. They're looking in the wrong place and should be looking up at those in power rather than at their neighbours.

Alltheyearround · 01/08/2024 23:04

And DS was in a nativity play in R/Y1/Y2. If anything I was a bit shocked the school let in some very evangelical and unscrupulous (I know people who went there and had shunning treatment for some perceived transgression from the ego mad male head of church) 'Christians' in to talk to very young children. Would have been happy for local vicar of church mentioned upthread to have talked to them but I did find it disturbing that the weird culty church people got access. Gave me the Ick.

There are weirdos of all faiths and none. Just saying.

I do think there are issues with integration for some communities. I think you'd be blind not to see that. Places in the north (where I am geographically) like Rotherham. Very complex - issues on both 'sides' which reinforce this.

Alltheyearround · 01/08/2024 23:05

WittyFatball · 01/08/2024 23:02

The thing is, if you are an averagely intelligent person with a good family and a decent home and a job and generally content with your life, you are not watching Tommy Robinson videos, ranting about Christmas and kicking off outside random mosques.

These are people who are struggling or inadequate on some level and need to find an easy target to blame for their woes. They're looking in the wrong place and should be looking up at those in power rather than at their neighbours.

^ 100% this.

ExtraOnions · 01/08/2024 23:08

…If they were Christians they would be living by “love thy neighbour as thyself” .. the Bible doesn’t add (but only if they are White)

i am Catholic, and a Governor at a Catholic school .. we teach Catholism. We also have a uniform that includes a headscarf, and a Durag .. we are mostly White, but room for everyone in Gods house.

HowardTJMoon · 01/08/2024 23:10

It's this. Although Murdoch's pile of cookies should look much, much bigger

Explain to me like I’m 5!
Alltheyearround · 01/08/2024 23:11

StupendousConfectionary · 01/08/2024 22:55

@brightyellowflower Regarding your last paragraph: I'm not saying these are my views btw. I'm saying what I hear regularly. I’ll answer these points as if I am replying to someone who do hold these views.

Watch even the main news and almost every presenter is not white.

I’m watching BBC Look North right now and the two presenter are both white. I’m not sure what your point is though, what is not being white got to do with our culture?

You can guarantee any advert now shows a black family/Muslim family.

Again, I’m not sure what skin colour has to do with our culture?

Of course, we're doing the same with lesbian/gay/transgender too at the moment. It's almost as if you're not allowed to be white and heterosexual anymore

Please share some evidence from credible sources which suggests British citizens are not allowed to be white or heterosexual.

Why are primary schools not allowed to be Christian anymore? Why can't they sing Christian hymms?

Again, please share some evidence from credible sources that back up this claim.

Why has yet another huge mosque been built in my town yet my local Christian church can't get the funding to replace the beautiful stained glass windows?

You’ll have to ask your local priest/vicar and the local Imam if you’re interested in their individual finances.

Why do we allow arranged marriages

Arranged marriages are legal in the UK. However forced marriages are not. If you know any vulnerable women, from any ethnic background that is victim of a forced marriage please work alongside some charities (such as Karma Nirvana) and do all you can to help if this is what you are passionate about.

why do women who want to live in Britain and be British walk around covered head to toe in black

What is wrong with dressing head to toe in black? Or are you referring to niqabs, hijabs, chadors etc.? If so, these women are perfectly within their rights to wear these traditional dresses. Again, if you know of any vulnerable women who may be forced into these clothing against their will please work alongside charities such as Karma Nirvana, Amina, Women’s Aid etc.

Show quote history

All in black...thought they were referring to goths for one second there.

Who have every right, as do muslim women, to dress as they feel.

Boris and his hateful letter box comments have a lot to answer for.

He did a lot to damage our country, and some of the MP's who pandered to the far right rhetoric.

Nothereisnotashortage · 01/08/2024 23:18

OneFrenchEgg · 01/08/2024 21:46

This is completely off topic but if my (Scottish) parents had moved to Italy and I was born there would I be Italian? When people say he was born here, he's British, it makes sense but then it doesn't make sense the other way.
Sorry, I might be really ignorant on this.

i know what you mean. I think other countries have different rules where being born in a country doesn’t make you automatically a citizen. My DC was born in a different European country but was not given citizenship They would have to do quite a few things and meet specific criteria to become a citizen even though they were born there. They are considered British, although born overseas, as both parents are British.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 02/08/2024 01:18

Nothereisnotashortage · 01/08/2024 23:18

i know what you mean. I think other countries have different rules where being born in a country doesn’t make you automatically a citizen. My DC was born in a different European country but was not given citizenship They would have to do quite a few things and meet specific criteria to become a citizen even though they were born there. They are considered British, although born overseas, as both parents are British.

Show quote history

Someone born here whose parents had a right to be here would be allowed to apply for citizenship at some stage, as would his parents, depending on the terms of their right to stay.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/08/2024 08:19

Bernadinetta · 01/08/2024 22:00

Further info on this- a man was arrested for bringing a knife to the vigil (to be clear- not the original 17 year old perpetrator of the stabbing, another man). Photos circulated online claiming her was Asian/arab and this was used as a “reason” to attack the mosque. It has now been released by police and reported in the press that the man was Jordan Davies, a far right thug. See screenshots from X (Twitter) below.

Show quote history

If you post stuff like this here you’re going to get this thread deleted, as about half a dozen others have been. This story has been completely discredited and the Telegraph newspaper took down a similar article after it came to light that the details weren’t accurate.

l live not far from where these tragic events took place and what you’ve posted here is similar to the inaccurate ‘facts’ posted on X, twitter and other social media sites, which were responsible for starting the violence.

To be clear, what happened on tuesday night is as follows. Rumours, including that of the perpetrator being a Muslim asylum seeker were being circulated on social media - aided an abetted by Russian incels, according to some sources. Messages were exchanged online and far right groups, including the EDL made their way to Southport.

There was a large group of these thugs gathered outside the Mosque in St Luke’s Road and after a stand off with police, a section 60 order for heightened stop and search powers, together with a Section 34 order to move on anyone behaving anti socially were put in place. That was how the man came to be arrested. He was stopped and searched in Eastbank Street and found to be carrying a flick knife, so he was arrested. The vigil was being held on Lord Street. He was not actually at the vigil and he was NOT the reason for sparking the violence - that was already well underway outside the mosque.

And as far as l know police haven’t named the man, and the only details released locally were that it was a 32 year old male from Standish, near Wigan, wearing a balaclava and found to be carrying a flick knife.

There has been violence in several towns over the past few nights, and the atmosphere in Southport is volatile. Police are asking for those discussing these events online to be careful not to post rumour or speculation, as this could easily escalate into more violence. Your post is speculation and rumour. X/Twitter is not a valid source of ‘fact’.

Bernadinetta · 02/08/2024 08:47

Rosscameasdoody · 02/08/2024 08:19

If you post stuff like this here you’re going to get this thread deleted, as about half a dozen others have been. This story has been completely discredited and the Telegraph newspaper took down a similar article after it came to light that the details weren’t accurate.

l live not far from where these tragic events took place and what you’ve posted here is similar to the inaccurate ‘facts’ posted on X, twitter and other social media sites, which were responsible for starting the violence.

To be clear, what happened on tuesday night is as follows. Rumours, including that of the perpetrator being a Muslim asylum seeker were being circulated on social media - aided an abetted by Russian incels, according to some sources. Messages were exchanged online and far right groups, including the EDL made their way to Southport.

There was a large group of these thugs gathered outside the Mosque in St Luke’s Road and after a stand off with police, a section 60 order for heightened stop and search powers, together with a Section 34 order to move on anyone behaving anti socially were put in place. That was how the man came to be arrested. He was stopped and searched in Eastbank Street and found to be carrying a flick knife, so he was arrested. The vigil was being held on Lord Street. He was not actually at the vigil and he was NOT the reason for sparking the violence - that was already well underway outside the mosque.

And as far as l know police haven’t named the man, and the only details released locally were that it was a 32 year old male from Standish, near Wigan, wearing a balaclava and found to be carrying a flick knife.

There has been violence in several towns over the past few nights, and the atmosphere in Southport is volatile. Police are asking for those discussing these events online to be careful not to post rumour or speculation, as this could easily escalate into more violence. Your post is speculation and rumour. X/Twitter is not a valid source of ‘fact’.

Edited
Show quote history

As far as you know police haven’t named the man? Merseyside Police on their website as Jordan Davies as I posted above.

www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2024/july/man-charged-with-possession-of-an-offensive-weapon-following-incident-in-southport/ www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2024/july/man-charged-with-possession-of-an-offensive-weapon-following-incident-in-southport/]]]]

Also named here in the Liverpool Echo

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/police-name-man-after-knife-29654007.amp www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/police-name-man-after-knife-29654007.amp]]]]

LBFseBrom · 02/08/2024 09:51

He has been named. The judge thought it was important to do that in this case to quell the hateful, racist, bigoted rumours which sparked the riots. I don't usually believe is right to name minors but I agree with the judge here.

It is terribly, terribly sad all round. Sorry it is the HateMail but it was the first article I came across when browsing the news this morning and it is factual, not inflammatory, in any way..

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13700639/Boy-17-accused-murdering-three-girls-Taylor-Swift-themed-dance-class-Southport-quiet-choirboy-unwilling-leave-house-speak-family-court-hears.html

Bernadinetta · 02/08/2024 10:02

LBFseBrom · 02/08/2024 09:51

He has been named. The judge thought it was important to do that in this case to quell the hateful, racist, bigoted rumours which sparked the riots. I don't usually believe is right to name minors but I agree with the judge here.

It is terribly, terribly sad all round. Sorry it is the HateMail but it was the first article I came across when browsing the news this morning and it is factual, not inflammatory, in any way..

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13700639/Boy-17-accused-murdering-three-girls-Taylor-Swift-themed-dance-class-Southport-quiet-choirboy-unwilling-leave-house-speak-family-court-hears.html

I wasn’t talking about the stabber. My post was about a man who was arrested at the vigil/riots who many right wing thugs posted a photo of his arrest online, claiming he was Asian/arab/muslim, to use as an excuse for rioting and targeting the Mosque, when he has now been identified by police as a right wing agitated called Jordan Davies.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/08/2024 10:42

Bernadinetta · 02/08/2024 08:47

Show quote history

Apologies. I haven’t been online much since the rioting because there is still so much rubbish being posted - mainly been sticking to BBC and Sky News so wasn’t aware he had actually been named. That doesn’t change the fact that you re-posted wrong information though. He wasn’t actually at the vigil, and his arrest definitely wasn’t what sparked the rioting. He was arrested as a result of the stop and search order on a street near where the vigil was held.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 02/08/2024 10:48

Excellent point @ghostyslovesheets

Rosscameasdoody · 02/08/2024 11:03

Bernadinetta · 02/08/2024 10:02

I wasn’t talking about the stabber. My post was about a man who was arrested at the vigil/riots who many right wing thugs posted a photo of his arrest online, claiming he was Asian/arab/muslim, to use as an excuse for rioting and targeting the Mosque, when he has now been identified by police as a right wing agitated called Jordan Davies.

Show quote history

Please will you stop posting wrong information. This man was not at vigil - he was stopped and searched two streets away from the vigil as a result of heightened police stop and search powers and arrested because he was found to be carrying a flick knife. The reports of his arrest as sparking the rioting has been corrected several times. The thugs travelled to Southport as a result of social media posts spreading rumours that the suspect was a Muslim asylum seeker. The violence started around 6pm outside the mosque after a stand off with police who were trying to disperse the mob. This man wasn’t arrested until 6.55pm. People may have posted pictures of the arrest after the event, but the violence was already well underway. Please stop minimising the cause, it was nothing to do with his arrest and entirely to do with organised thugs agitating and hijacking a dreadful event to use for their own ends.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 02/08/2024 13:11

See BBC. EDL called for the riots, saying:

"Every city needs to go up everywhere,”

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 02/08/2024 13:12

In other words, trash and burn our cities. Including an area where people have just lost their children.

Lovely, aren't they?

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/08/2024 13:14

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · Today 13:12
In other words, trash and burn our cities. Including an area where people have just lost their children.

Lovely, aren't they?

Bloody imbeciles.