shocked my best friend voted Reform

[clearmoon]

Long standing close friend came round for dinner and we were nattering away, and she just mentioned off hand in the conversation that she had voted Reform. i am really shocked. We don't discuss politics much. But I would have guessed lib dems or labour. I love her dearly. But I do wonder if I should think about her differently now, or just carry on as before

YANBU - She is not such a good person as I thought all these years
YABU-its all fine

I understand the policy, I just don't understand the posts referring to net levels. Thats not what the word net means, that is what I am saying. Or if it does, then it suddenly has a whole new meaning that I have never come across before. That is why I am confused by several posts with the same syntax errors in them.

My BIL & all his family voted reform. I’m an immigrant. I know it has nothing to do with their attitude towards me. Each and every reform voter does it for their own reasons, not always to do with racial hatered. I think the problem with reform is actually baseless and empty promises (akin that famous NHS bus).

Maybe expecting the friend to look up to Labour poster voter and op is ok to condemn in return

This thread is a really good example of how polarised and entrenched people have become on their political opinions, with an inability to see the argument from the other side.

It really doesn't bode well for the future.

As someone traditionally left leaning, I found myself unable to vote Labour, Liberal Democrat, SNP or Green this time round because they had certain policies that I disagreed with so strongly, that I couldn’t bring myself to do it. I didn’t vote Reform, because I think Nigel Farage is a populist charlatan, but I understand people who felt as I did, choosing to do so. I couldn’t bring myself to vote Conservative and so I (reluctantly and sadly) spoiled my ballot paper. I would have much preferred not to do so.

I hang out on Twitter probably more than I should. There are lots of posts from people who seem perfectly reasonable, but have very different politics from me. There are also a number of left wingers who seem to spend their lives obsessing about what other people do, which they consider beyond the pale, such as attending the recent nationalist rallies in London.

People are sick of what’s happening and all the anger and instability, so they are jumping on board things that they wouldn’t have considered before, in the hope that something will change, I think. Perhaps your friend knew that Reform wouldn’t win, and thus felt safe in voting for them, hoping that they might have a restraining influence on the Labour Party, which were almost inevitably going to win. Having read the policies they set out in their manifesto, it didn’t sound too bad on paper.

Similarly, people going on nationalist marches. Again, I am sceptical because of the man who is leading the rise of those protests, but I understand that people want to object and don’t see him as a stumbling block, for whatever reason. They will have rationalized it for themselves, just as I have, but came down on the other side. That doesn’t make them bad people. I absolutely understand the frustration that leads people to take paths that I myself can’t bring myself to take, even if we previously agreed.

When so many, formerly reasonable people are taking actions that we don’t understand, maybe we shouldn’t assume they have suddenly become bad people. More likely the situation has changed and that is driving them to act differently from me. The current situation is so unstable, that it’s difficult to see which direction is the right way to go. It may only become clear over time, which decisions were reasonable and which led to things worsening.

Give your head a wobble
everyone is entitled to an opinion, and opinions don’t all ‘conform’ otherwise we’d all be robots
BUT consider the billions spent on illegal immigration, the buckling education and nhs system. Women not safe walking down a street alone… a prime minister who is unable to confirm what a woman is, men taking sport away from girls and women, spaces designated for the safety of women at risk.
This isn’t far right or racist…but it’s what reform are talking about. Maybe your tunnel ‘racist’ vision is the problem. We need more critical thought processes when balancing who we vote for.
Id ask my friend why/how did they make that decision and respect, not necessarily agree with but look at her reasoning. Maybe learn another perspective so your opinion is more balanced. How does it feel on that pedestal?

Look, we all have a right to draw our own boundaries and choose who we want to spend time with.

I think people are missing the point somewhat. I’ve got people in my friendship group who don’t vote the same as me or have the same ideas, that’s fine. My best friend however is very similar to me in lots of ways, especially her opinions. We always naturally agree. That’s what makes me closer to her than other friends.

I would be astonished and disappointed if my best mate voted Reform because it’d mean literally everything about her values that we share would have changed. If another friend did it wouldn’t matter in the same way. I think it being the OP’s best friend is the issue here, I’m not sure why people aren’t getting that.

Would be the same for a pair of best mates who are Conservative too.

Well, to be fair, this is a thread about Reform and you only mentioned the "Trumpster" on a much earlier, entirely separate, post.

"The example I gave was friend who was a Trumpster and a Brexiter, despite doing no damage as she’s American and couldn’t vote."

So now you're likening everyone who votes Republican to paedophiles? You sound very nice indeed and not at all close minded.

There is too much polarisation, herding and intolerance in how people think about politics these days. Please don't add to that by only being friends with people who agree with you politically. All kinds of nuance is beneficial to a democracy. Probably to a friendship too if you go into it with that mindset.

The OP has taken some lumps on this but let us get real; some reform voters are racists. Some have extreme ideas. We shouldn’t pretend this isn’t true. A number of gentlemen have been arrested outside Downing St with t shirts on that say Nigel Farage for PM, Tommy Robinson for Home Secretary. To pretend that Reform does not attract racists is foolish.

But by the same nature, some labours voters are racist. Some Labour voters are homophobic. And misogynists

So are some Tory voters and Green Party voters and Liberal Democrat’s.

Perhaps talk about why

This is a sweeping statement and frankly a little ignorant.

If someone you think is a good person votes for a party who are blatantly hateful, bigoted, misogynistic and racist, then of course that matters.

We should all care how others are voting because when good people are brainwashed with hatred and propaganda, it impacts all of our lives.

You get idiots of all political persuasions, it’s just a reflection of the general population. But there are a higher concentration of racists amongst Reform voters than the general population.

My husband and I voted for Brexit. We were having dinner with his best friend a couple of years later and he was going on and on about Brexit voters and how stupid they are. We quietly told him we had voted for Brexit and he was so shocked. It was so awkward.

Sadly he and his wife have backed off hugely from us now.

I don't have a particular political allegiance and I wouldn't judge friends on theirs. I'd rather discuss and listen and be open. It's very sad.

"But being liberal does not mean that it I think it's ok to support a party that has openly racist policies."

That's interesting, which policies are those?

This is from the BBC about their election manifesto:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqll1edxgw4o

Which of these are the "racist" policies?

Exactly! I personally do not want at any age to be told how and for whom to vote by self righteous people. The reality is that the choices were dreadful and the current government are in because of people who voted Reform or abstentions to vote.

Is there?

Would love to see the figures on that.

I read the Reform manifesto (or ‘Contract’, as they called it) and can see how it would seem compelling to people that are worried about immigration levels, the health service etc. However, to me it was a very cleverly-worded piece of propaganda, written in simple, ‘of the people’ language. From what I remember of it, there was very little actual substance as to how they were going to ‘stop the boats’ or reduce immigration. There was nothing on there to suggest improving schools other that to get rid of ‘woke gender-based ideology’. Nothing to suggest helping people other than to get rid of the benefit cap because ‘women should have as many children as they want’ (hello, Gilead).
To me they are a populist party being run by a slippery opportunist. Their sheer lack of discernible direction or actual costed policies made me wonder about the intelligence of the people who voted for them.
Still, they managed to split the Tory vote by appealing to the uninformed masses so…

They are a repulsive party, however I don't think I'd let it ruin a friendship, assuming she's not made politics her entire personality and she's not a raging racist (I would like to think you wouldve cottoned on if this were the case). People vote differently for all sorts of reasons, and I'd just avoid political talk in the future.

Not always. In many cases it can be fear of being ostracised or punished for holding views that do not agree with the groupthink of their group (be it friends or work colleagues or whatever).

To make an analogy using a different topic. Women have been censored and even lost their jobs when they had the courage of their convictions to stand up and say that men are not women.

"If people are ashamed of what they believe, then on some level they know it's not right."

Many others kept quiet as they were afraid to lose their jobs. They weren't/aren't ashamed of their beliefs but want to keep their job.

Most people on Mumsnet are bigots, by that definition

So we have Labour and growing public disorder instead. Doesn’t seem all that rosy

I am happy to admit that I am intolerant of racism and yes, I do believe that people who espouse racist views, or defend those with racist views, are "morally inferior".

Your post is disingenuous. OP has not said that she is upset because her friend voted differently to her, or because her friends political views do not align exactly with her own. She is upset that her friend has voted for a particular party whose views she finds abhorrent.

I have friends who vote differently to me, I have friends whose opinions on politics, religion and social issues do not necessarily align with my own, and I love them dearly. But there are certain things that I personally find unacceptable and don't think should be tolerated (racism being one) and I reserve the right to decide who I am prepared to spend my time with.