shocked my best friend voted Reform

[clearmoon]

Long standing close friend came round for dinner and we were nattering away, and she just mentioned off hand in the conversation that she had voted Reform. i am really shocked. We don't discuss politics much. But I would have guessed lib dems or labour. I love her dearly. But I do wonder if I should think about her differently now, or just carry on as before

YANBU - She is not such a good person as I thought all these years
YABU-its all fine

Tribalist politics aren’t helping us. They’re how we’re in the shit show we currently are living in.

Absolutely this. I can like and respect people who held very different views to me on a range of subjects. Supporting racists, not so much.

This is massively insulting to those who actually suffered under Hitler.
Wanting to reduce migration to net levels and have a merit based immigration system is not the same as gassing millions of people.

Are you aware that anyone can be a racist, they don't have to be white?

Agree. This view – of wanting controlled, sustainable immigration that allows successful integration and doesn't strain public services – is now akin to being a Nazi.

People complain about divisions in society, but painting perfectly reasonable, widely-shared views as racist and bigoted is pretty fucking divisive!

Those of us who want more limited on immigration do not hate foreigners! It's a practical, pragmatic viewpoint. When immigration is too much, too fast, it causes problems. We are lucky to live in one of the most tolerant, open and peaceful countries on earth – but we do need to take measures to ensure it stays that way.

A lot of mu friends are lefties. Labour mostly. I don't think worse of them for it.

This. My best friend voted reform. I know why she did and it's not because she's racist or a bigot. We are on different ends of the political spectrum but the reality is morally/ethically we're not that far apart except on a small number of topics. Politics has become so polarised that it's easy for this to happen. And on the areas we disagree on (and immigration is one but not the only one) it's good to have someone to challenge my thinking.

Plus you need to be aware that for people who didn't want Labor in power, Reform was sometimes the only option for a tactical vote.

To go to an extreme, the BNP used to put up candidates in my constituency (not anymore). If there was even a chance they'd win and the main opposition was Reform, I'd have voted Reform without a second thought.

Shouting ‘racist’ or ‘thick’ at anyone that was considering voting to leave in the brexit vote got us nowhere.

Shouting ‘racist’ and ‘bigot’ and ‘ableist’ got us nowhere in the last few elections.

Shouting ‘racist’ at anyone who chose to vote reform will get us nowhere now. Especially, when you are shouting it at people whose everyday lives are being really negatively damaged by immigration issues.

The concern question should be ‘why did so many people feel they couldn’t vote for labour or anyone else and so many voted for Reform’ needs to be addressed. Just shouting ‘you are thick’ isn’t going to address why people are so willing to support Reform.

Labour would have got in much earlier if they had addressed why so many people felt they couldn’t vote for them. Addressed the actual issues people are concerned about.

Unfortunately, they don’t seem to want to even address it now they are in and I think they won’t last too long.

At some point, we have to accept that (rightly or wrongly) a lot of people feel their lives are being damaged by the ways things are. Telling them to shut up will just continue to see the rise of parties like reform.

Exactly. Why do the mumsnet hive mind think those who just maybe disagree with their choice of voting are ignorant racist bigots.
Really you should listen to yourselves sometimes - the hate, the judgement makes YOU look bigoted.

It is the same kind of attitude that thinks labour removing the WFA from pensioners (who actually need it but are not on PC because they saved for their old age) is fine and a good thing because everyone they know including parents and in laws spend it on a case of wine or a holiday.

Labour voters on MN have no empathy with anyone else - so they will deserve no praise for being the good 'ones' from me.

Nick Griffin's wife is a nurse. How does one reconcile caring and racism?

I feel the same way over my Labour supporting friends. Don't discuss politics with friends unless you can truly handle different political persuasions - it's just not worth it!

Why assume non white people can’t be racist?

Unfortunately I would never see her in the same way again. It would probably end the friendship for me.

I don't care who people vote for.

I like Reform's agricultural policies, I'm very worried about food security. I'm worried that farmers are incentivised to turn over their land to rewilding or cover it in solar panels, they are incentivised to not grow food this concerns me a lot.

I spoiled this year, because I don't believe they will deliver on that, but if I did I'd consider voting for them.

why? Do you understand that one's life experiences make us who we are or do you think that most people are incapable of independent thought and look to social media and the papers on important issues of the day to instruct us what we should thinking?
Maybe some people have had different life experiences and are using these to direct where they feel they should vote.

This thread just confirms my view that the Left (not all) are the most bigoted, narrow-minded and intolerant of the lot. They can't even bear to have friends who have different opinions. And they don't even want to hear their reasoning for why they vote the way they do. They hate diversity of opinion.

Also, no one is actually explaining why they think Reform is racist. Fine if you sincerely think this, but it would be nice to see at least one person explain exactly which policies are xenophobic. (And if you're going to resort to the personalities and sympathies of the leaders and many of its voters, then I certainly hope you didn't vote for Labour which has one of the most racist recent histories of all the parties, and many of whose most radical voters are the worst in terms of anti-Semitism). I don't think Labour is a racist party, but that's because I judge parties by their policies and not the people who align themselves with them, or the unfortunate views of some of those who lead it.

I have only just joined this site but, reading this thread, I now have an insight into the mindset of the people on here. It's typical of so many people who don't bother to think things through properly.
This country is in a mess because of incompetent politicians who put their own interests before that of the country. At the last election, we all had a difficult choice to make. The Conservatives were useless and had to be removed from office. Labour were not a popular alternative. Voting Reform was a protest vote by many people. It was very unlikely that Reform would win, so voting for them was a way of showing dissatisfaction with the established parties.

I don't live in the UK and I find this concept really odd. I know a lot of people who are racist and whilst there are white people, including white British people amongst them, the majority are non-white. A lot of racism is driven by a lack of exposure/fear of people different to you.

Note I say 'know' - doesn't mean I'm friends with these people. I've ended friendships over this.

This is turning into a general politics discussion. OP was shocked about her best friend. Not a random person at work that she chats about the weather with in the kitchen.

When that happens I think you’re also a bit disappointed with yourself - for guessing wrong, or not having had the powerful arguments to change their mind, or a feeling of helplessness.

Depends on the topic and how important it is for you.

To PP who thought I’d equated Reform with paedo. I didn’t mention Reform. The example I gave was friend who was a Trumpster and a Brexiter, despite doing no damage as she’s American and couldn’t vote. I just grabbed at a revolting extreme and that’s what came to mind because of stuff in the news yesterday.

This thread is liberal left all over. Scream about tolerance yet utterly intolerant of any views other than their own

I’m starting to see that the left is a problem in this country.
The tribalism and sanctimoniousness that is actively shutting down discussions - can’t talk about immigration because it’s racist - is pushing people to the right.

Farage seized an opportunity to highlight certain issues (immigration, gender ideology) that the then government and lack of opposition pussy footed around about and couldn’t/wouldn’t make clear statements about, even though it’s been bloody obvious for years that these are things people are worried about. Maybe Farage is a dangerous opportunist, but his path has been made clear by the incompetency of politicians and by the sneering holier than though attitude of the left.

I’ve been a lefty all my life but can no longer bring myself to vote Labour. I spoiled my vote this time. I fully understand why so many have felt forced to vote for Reform.

The continued posts like this, the purity spirals, the insults flung at anyone who doesn’t vote how you want them to, is not going to win friends and influence people. It’s part of the reason 14% of voters chose reform, and if you carry on it’ll be even more next election.

I wouldn't drop a friend just because I didn't agree with their politics (or religious beliefs).

Absolutely this!!
"How dare you have your own thoughts and views!! This is not acceptable, the only acceptable vote is left like mine, as we are so tolerant and accepting of all!!"

Would be a deal breaker for me. I can't be friendly with someone who's ok with a party that uses racist dog-whistles to get votes.

Did you even ask her why she voted Reform before assuming racism?

I nearly voted Reform because they're the only party advocating for a complete remodelling of the health service, and I agree that the French model, which they want to reproduce, works much better. I also think that they're the only truly low tax party. And that instead of talking about building more houses and infrastructure, the problem could be solved at root levels if migration was kept at net levels. I am the grandchild of immigrants. I didn't vote for them because I disagree with its stance on Ukraine, but none of my reasons for nearly voting for them were racist. So why do so manu assume all Reform voters are racist?