THe upper middle class favour immigration

[MeouwCat]

The upper middle class favour immigration because the alternative would be paying locals more and that would men them paying higher taxes to support the wage demands by care workers/Nurses/council workers etc.

@SharonEllis - Are you like one of those authors who self-publish on Amazon? A sort of self-proclaimed ‘historian’?

Completely agree - only the most naive ior misinformed believe in a 'free for all' ut managed immigration is essential. All the doctors at my surgery are 1st gen immigrants (judging by accents) as well as the majority of consultants and nurses that we have seen as a family over the last few years. Working class and lower income people in our community get the same benefit as my family from their contribution & any health inequalities (there are major ones, but its complicated) are not the result of immigrant medical staff.

No, I have an Oxbridge doctorate, not that its relevant to this thread.

Well, not everyone is academic. So what?

It would have been a better solution to improve secondary modern schools so that the kids who didn’t pass the 11 plus did not feel like failures.

Well what a shame that your education wasn’t a bit more rounded.

@GreekDogRescue that's very presumptuous- my very good Gardner charges £22 an hour (comes once every 3 weeks for 2 hours) and the cleaners I use a few times a year charge £20 an hour- both are better paid than my son who works in London in networks and telecoms. Clearly mass immigration hasn't affected their rates.

And migrants that are us

Nope, I am an immigrant public sector worker - a teacher. FYI, this country is desperate for teachers because there is a huge recruitment crisis due to poor pay. The UK is now trying to recruit teachers from Jamaica. Oh no! More immigrants entering the country to educate your children, God forbid.

So true. The immigrant, skilled tradesmen that I have used are all better renumeration than me, an immigrant teacher.

@GreekDogRescue I think we should be far tighter on immigration than the Tory's have been in recent times- but Brexit was partly to blame for that-they didn't tell people the truth that instead of young Polish lasses or Lithuanian carers who were no longer interested in jumping through hoops -they would make it easier for immigrants from the 3rd world and until recently allow whole families too-they are to blame , so targeting the new gvt isa bit rich- but to be frank that's not what this rioting is about- it's a bunch of tanked up right wingers liking a good punch up -and the arsehole doing this was born here and never lived outside the UK - he's no different to Sunak or Braverman etc

@mumedu - thank you- we do actually need more folk of your calibre -what annoys me is Brexit has driven away some really good people -nurses, doctors, scientists, carers because the attitude towards anyone from the EU by certain sections of society totally sucked- often people that didn't have much to offer themselves skills wise to the UK - and the right wing press and media emboldened these arseholes to basically hate on 'any' 'forriners'

Our children, n”est ce pas

Champagne socialism has nothing to do with tax or wanting lower taxes.

Luxury beliefs are beliefs you have the luxury of not having to pay the consequences of believing in.

Saying you believe unmanaged mass immigration is an unbridled good gains you lots of social virtue bonus points and costs you nothing at all if you're rich enough to be mostly unaffected by it.

I'm all for immigration but really this narrative of British people won't do x y z is a nonsense. What do you think happened in the UK pre mass immigration or indeed what happens now in areas with low numbers of immigrants.

Fruit picking was traditionally carried out by teenagers for example.

and spud picking by my mam in her late 50s, and any other locals who cared to jump on the truck when it came round

Or maybe more educated people are just better at hiding their racism?

Fair point, that could indeed be the case.

We have certainly seen an increase on these boards in recent times of very carefully and cleverly crafted posts designed to escape moderation while making clearly racist points.

Education is quite likely to reduce racism. Learning about the misconceptions and bad science underpinning atrocities like the transatlantic slave trade, the holocaust and the genocide of indigenous people tends to highlight the sheer stupidity of racism as a point of view, and race as a construct. Do people seriously believe that human beings, sharing 99.9% genetic code, are that different to one another?

Do people seriously believe that human beings, sharing 99.9% genetic code, are that different to one another?

sadly many do. But the fact is that if there are two Africans and one European in a room together, statically it is far more likely that the European will be more closely related to each African than the Africans will be to each other - because all humans evolved in Africa but only a few “tribes” migrated to Europe and Asia meaning the genetic diversity is far greater in Africa than the rest of the world.

@ExLineManagerIsABully That's very interesting thank you. We are all immigrants really! Not only that, we are immigrants from one extended family I suppose.

Also, this kind of scientific research shows the falsity of the ideas of race and racial purity which the far right propose.

Exactly!

I read it in Adam Rutherford’s “a brief history of everyone who ever lived”

he’s also written “how to argue with a racist” but I’ve not read hat yet.

But it’s so wearing reading all the ignorant and racist posts here. And seeing that bigotry translated into the riots and hatred we’ve seen in the last couple of days is just awful.

Not only racism but also xenophobia, anti English posts, hatred directed towards white people,, real venomous comments directed at people who choose to send their children to private schools, today white people were openly grouped into sh.ties by a poster.

Im mixed race and have always stayed well away from it all but to think racism is the only issue connected to differences between humans isnt a clear reflection of current society in thr UK. Somehow since the elections hatred and diversion has been propelled to a new level, and no I'm not blaming Labour just noting its happening.it's a mess 100%.

It really is. It's as if all the small-minded racists have been given permission to crawl out from under a rock.

yes exactly - and worse they then claim they are representing "the ordinary people". they really are not shows the arrogance / entitlement they have as "poor little white boys" (as the vast majority of these vile protesters appeared to be)

These pathetic little men are a huge problem - lack of education, lack of any meaningful contribution to society and then looking to blame others for their failings. i hope you don't mind me sharing this quick clip however - karma was supreme to one of them....