AIBU to discourage DD's friendship due to the mum?

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DD is 8 and has Asperger's.

She's very very literal- i have to be careful what I say to her as she really struggles if I've said something is happening and then it doesn't. She's having therapy to work on this as sadly it's something that is going to happen in life.

She's had a hard year at school with some low-level bullying, and has no friends at school. She has about 4-5 outside of school who are my friends' kids who she sees occasionally, maybe every 2-3 months.

One in particular is M who she loves. We don't see M often as she's very busy and very popular - always out at parties or play dates.

M's mum is very strict and will insist on work being done before playing. And if the work isn't done, you don't go.

We arranged to meet M at the pool yesterday, and M's mum warned me that M had to do her work first. She texted at 12 to say our agreed 1.30 meet was unlikely. At 3 I messaged asking how long she'd be as DD was getting upset & going back & forth to the pool entrance every 5 mins looking for her. M's mum then called and said sorry, M hasn't done her work so they aren't coming.

DD was gutted and now thinks M doesn't like her as if she wanted to come, she'd have done the work.

For context M was also 2 hours late for DD's last 2 birthday parties. This year her mum got the time wrong apparently. Last year she wasn't allowed to leave until she'd tidied her bedroom.

I know my DD has to learn that sometimes people let you down. And sometimes people say they'll do something and then don't.

But AIBU to think this friendship is going to cause more pain than it's worth?

And also AIBU to think that it's fucking rude to let us wait 90 mins and then say you're not coming ?! I respect her right to punish her daughter as she sees fit but she's punishing mine too, who has done nothing wrong.

I'd say to the mum 'I understand where you are coming from, however my DD needs reliability, so if you can't commit to coming then I don't think we should arrange 1-1 play dates going forward.'

This is not about her mum being strict - they can do whatever they like in that family between themselves, sod them. This is about your poor dd waiting for the princess to announce whether she is coming or not. From own experience, the worst thing is waiting - not knowing what will happen, if it will happen, when it will happen. Not just for the kids, but for adults - waiting for a response to a proposal, a diagnosis, an exam result, a letter from uni saying yes/no, a response after an interview. Waiting anxiously is killing, when you have to check your Inbox, etc. I would drop that 'princess' immediately because the only thing that is teaching your dd is that she is not important, that her needs come second, that she has to wait for 'better people' to decide if they deign to give your daughter an audience or not. If I were you, I would get rid and explain in exactly the same words - no, real friends don't do that. Decent people don't arrange everything around THEIR needs, decent people would abhor the idea of letting others wait anxiously.

I would be so tempted to send something along the lines of 'No, I don't understand that. Using my child to punish yours is teaching your daughter that bad manners are acceptable, so the consistency you offer her is centred on academic work at the expense of social and emotional development.'

But I probably wouldn't!

That mum sounds like a total wanker. We had one like this, she never respected either her own child or my needs, it was all about her need to control. Friendship fell apart when they hit adolescence because her child was not allowed to do anything or go anywhere, just academically pushed because of her own issues about not being very clever or successful . incredibly sad for both kids but in retrospect, I wish I’d put more energy into other friendships as well (although I really feel sorry for her kid and wouldn’t have given up our time with him for the world)

I have little doubt by the way that the other girl was unable to complete the work because she got so overwhelmed with her mums behaviour. That sort of heavy-handed aparenting is so counterproductive

You’re absolutely spot on: M’s parents really don’t care at all about anyone else’s children. It’s all about them, their children, their household, their choices, their values.

The 'work' always immediately preceding nice social events for M suggests that the mum essentially uses other children as rewards to make her daughter toe the line. I wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who thinks they can use people, especially children, in that way.

FREE M!!!!!!!

You can't control her parenting style, and she obviously is a "no play until work is done" type parent. It's an old fashioned approach, but if that's how they do tings, yes, she's every right to remain consistent in her messages to her daughter.

She can't contriol your parenting either, such as needing clarity and consistency in making arrangements. As a result, the girl can't be a reliable friend to your DD.

You can attempt to mitigate it through "we'll see X, but if that isn't going to happen our plan is Y," or you can decide not to bother with them at all.

I'm sorry your daughter was upset. It's horrible seeing them hurt.

It’s not the little girl’s fault at all, but no way would I be rewarding this behaviour (the mother’s) by elevating their status to “it’s a lovely surprise/bonus if they appear”. Friendships should be equal and not premised on one person deigning to bless the other with their inevitably belated appearance.

The other mum sounds like she’s insecure about her parenting (rightly so as it sounds bloody dreadful) and is being performatively ‘strict’ and domineering to re-assert power over her daughter and over other people, like you. A shame for her daughter but not your problem and not an ingredient for a helpful friendship for your daughter at this point, quite the opposite.

This!

If you feel confident enough, I would stand up to your friend and say this.

It sounds like deep down you feel that the mum isn't that pushed about helping her daughter maintain the friendship with yours. It's a difficult situation as autistic people usually like to know about plans in advance, so it must be very disconcerting for your daughter to have this uncertainty.

The other mother sounds completely selfish and a bit obnoxious - she can parent as she wants of course, but why make your day and plans the victim of that? If she's taking a reward/punishment approach, she could use ice cream or something else rather than going for such high stakes and dragging other people's time and feelings into it. She's not exactly helping her DD's development as it's forcing her into thinking about whether or not she wants to spend time with your DD instead of making it all more relaxed.

I would find it difficult to be friends with someone who was so disrespectful of my time and my child. I know it's tricky if your DD likes this other child, but being disappointed like this is also going to have an impact that you need to protect her from.

I think M’s mum sounds like a total fucking bitch and absolutely toxic. For that reason alone I’d ditch them entirely.

What a horrible way to treat everyone. Poor bloody child.

I didn't hang out with mums or dads whose parenting style was too unlike my own as it just caused stress if we ate crisps and they weren't allowed anything, or if they didn't come as a punishment. I'd leave the friendship behind, a bit sad but this mum isn't flexible and she isn't going to prioritise your dd's needs in the future, it's always going to be stressful and disappointing, I'd just move on.

M's Mum sounds like a controlling nutjob.

Yes, she needs to be consistent in her parenting but she also has a duty to be clear and consistent when she makes plans with other people. If somebody has the expectation that she will arrive at 1.30 she needs to follow through with that plan and arrive on time or at the very least communicate any issues in advance. Her priority should be not letting you down so not using that particular sanction for when her daughter doesn't do as she's told would be the reasonable thing to do.

She will consistently let you down, don't bother with her.

(It's Autism or ASD, some people prefer ASC too but it's not medically correct, now BTW, Asperger was a Nazi eugenicist who sent disabled children to death camps to experimented on and euthanised.)

My mum once did something like this to me. Or rather to my friend and her mum.
I was supposed to be going to theirs for tea, once I'd changed out of school uniform. But my mum was angry because my room was a mess, and said that I couldn't go until it was done. I said that they were expecting me at 4:15, but she wouldn't have any of it. It took an hour for her to decide that I could go. By the time I got there, the mum opened the door to me with surprise, and said they didn't think I was coming so my friend had eaten.

Bless her, she let me stay and made me something to eat, but it was horribly awkward, and it's something I've never forgotten. And that was nearly 60 years ago.

Poor M.

I truely am sorry to disappoint her, but hope you can understand seeking to consistently parent my children, laying out clear expectations & following through on discussed repercussions, is and always will be my priority

Christ, she sounds like an absolute arsehole. Pompous cow.

It sounds like her expectations of her eight-year-old child are very OTT anyway - how much 'work' can a child that young actually need to do?! - and she's a selfish cow if she doesn't ever consider the impact of her daughter's punishments on other people.

If she's so determined to punish her child for not doing whatever work an eight-year-old needs to do in the school holidays, she could easily impose a punishment that doesn't fuck things up for everyone else.

Would your DD cope with M turning up as a nice surprise? Or would she get upset that a plan for the day wasn't being followed even though she likes M?

If she wouldn't cope with seeing M being a nice surprise I'd just cool the friendship off, it's not going to work.

If she would be happy with M turning up unexpectedly I'd go down that route. Only arrange to do things with them you'd be happy to do on your own anyway. That way if they turn up it's a bonus, if they don't then you haven't lost anything.

Exactly. I also enforce no going out before you've done your school work but not if there's a planned event or someoneis waiting for us...and to be fair to the kids if I'd seen effort was being made to do work it wouldn't matter if it was finished or not. You can pick it up again when you get back in. Yes you need to be consistent no we don't need to me thoughtless to others.

No doubt M’s mum feels very smug & superior about her “consistent” parenting but actually she is just very ill-mannered.

I’d explore local clubs etc to help DD to find like-minded friends and prioritise supporting any other friendships she has.

Does M actually want to meet up with your daughter do they actually get on. Sometimes mum friends children do drift apart

These sorts of people will always prioritise their need to look busy over you and your daughter.

With our flaky friends I always assume they’ll be late or a no show so I let them know what our plans are so they can join if they’re not too terribly busy or important that day 😅

Never plan your day around them, plan it despite them.

I could have written this post 5 years ago. Almost identical situation. Oh, the heartbreak for my DD - it was sooooo sad! We limped along for another two years then gave up on it in the end. Secondary school turned out to be much better for mates. Hang in there. I'm so sorry, and feel your pain.

The mum sounds really horrible and I would have absolutely nothing more to do with them I were in your situation.

I would also explain to DD that M’s mum has odd rules and punishments, and that she is the one who stopped the friend from coming, quite possibly because she herself couldn’t be arsed to take her DD swimming to just made up a punishment as an excuse.

Then tell her that you don’t like M’s mother because she is rude and unpleasant, so you won’t be arranging any more meet ups that need both parents there… then go out looking for some new friends for you both, focusing on only those who are kind, compassionate and respectful of others time and feelings. Honesty from you is important (I also have an autistic DD, and you need to get right to the point with this, and the upshot is that M is nice but her mum is a wanker and that’s a shame)

Model self-respect in front of your DD. Don’t ever give that woman your time again, she feels that you don’t matter and she has made that clear, show your DD what to do when someone treats you like that (you walk away)

Note: It is M's mum and not M. Just dont tell DD in advance of any dates!

I have a friend with child who are quite flaky for one reason or another so I don't tell ds it's happening until it really is, or I caveat it with things like "they are hoping to meet us but...". The friendship is too valuable to me and to ds to cut them off. Also, we were 30 minutes late ourselves to something this morning due to a meltdown, so we can be equally as bad (even if I would much rather be punctual).

There is a chance that the mum was trying to warn you that the meet up was not going to happen but you went ahead anyway. I wouldn't have gone until they had texted that they were on their way. Just through experience.