Who is being unreasonable - children taken to park during summer camp

[Jimmies]

DS5 is doing summer holiday camp. Run by same people as do his after-school club. The holiday camp is held at the school, in the same hall/area as the after-school club.

Started from 9am this morning. DH dropped DS off at 10.30am (!) but found all the children and the staff had gone to a playground 10 mins walk up the road. So weren't at the school at all.

We weren't told there would be any trips out of the school.

I think if he'd been dropped off on time - it would have been mentioned they were planning on making a little trip. It's only 10 mins walk away, there are only 10 kids.

DH is furious. I think he's been v affected by yesterday's news and is saying no way can they just take kids to the park without us giving explicit permission for them to be taken off site. All the info and marketing of the club was about being at the school doing activities on site.

He wants to pull DS out of the holiday camp (which would NOT be good for DS at all). I want him to stay in the camp - it's with all his friends.

What do you think? I am under-reacting or is he over-reacting?

there are reasons why DS is in holiday camp while DH isn't working - DS is only in part-time but it's a whole other subject! and i definitely think DS being in the park with his friends and doing activities is better for DS than being at home.

i just wanted to gage whether people think i'm being way too relaxed that i wasn't bothered they'd gone to the park without knowing trips/local walks were part of the planned activities.

We have used different holiday clubs over the years. Some have a policy on lateness and others don't mind the drop in. But, the bigger ones especially, don't like drop in because it messes with their schedules as often a member of staff then has to go do check in etc. Both our kids went to private nursery. One was very relaxed about late drop offs/early pick ups. The other one asked parents not to do it at all without prior arrangement. so either of you could be right.

I think if your DH has taken a week off work, he could have done something lovely with both his boys, instead of raging about a school holiday club which isn't even essential this week.

Hmmm. Sounds a bit odd but I agree that your DS is probably better in a summer club than with your DH given how you have said he behaves.

No you're not being too relaxed.

Your "D"H on the other hand sounds like he has some serious issues. Walking around and muttering "they've fucked up, they've fucked up" is a very bizarre reaction to a kids holiday camp taking the kids out to the park....

I suspect the parents were all asked to sign a permission slip on arrival in the morning - those that arrived at the correct time.

Parents all over the UK (probably the world given the global nature of the news) are all panicking this morning, but children need to be allowed to live their lives and all reasonable precautions taken. You can’t prepare for nutters or unimaginable act of violence, I imagine the carers are absolutely watching them and the surroundings like hawks today.

I can understand him being wobbly after what happened yesterday however, why was he so late dropping off? I'm assuming he didn't let them know he was going to be so late otherwise he would have known about the trip to the park?
Trip to the park totally fine and lovely - as others have said, risk assessed and consent would have been sought (either at drop-off or as he is known to them, already signed within their paperwork).
I would be more concerned about the late drop-off.

I said the same but TBF given the OPs description of her husband's behaviour over something so minor, maybe the kids are better in a holiday club...

I've got a theory...

Your husband is claiming he's so outraged at this trip to the park that for your child's safety he can't return to the club for the rest of the week...

Could it be that actually he arrived 1.5 hours late with your son today and got a bit of a frosty reception from the holiday club staff (completely reasonable!) and a firm reminder that children must be there on time each day, which would mean he has to get up earlier on the rest of his days off this week and he CBA and was also maybe a bit embarrassed / felt told off?

So he's completely overreacted to this park thing so he can get out of the already small job of dropping his child off each morning...

My money is on this 100%.

I find it strange everyone is getting hung up on the fact he was ‘late’. Our summer camps don’t care at all if children come later.

I definitely would not be happy about my children being taken off site without me being informed. I would of said that before yesterday.

I received an email this morning from the camp my kids attend in light of the awful events yesterday. They have increased staff for the next few weeks, reiterated their safety/access procedures and confirmed that they will stay within the grounds the site is based on (they have outdoor space).

OP refuses to answer this.

The truth is yesterday’s news was heart- rending but they were at the venue they were supposed to be at. That didn’t change anything.

I find men of a certain age hit out in anger to detract ( in their mind) from their own mistakes. 😬 He was late, he was cross with himself, he blamed someone else for something “ worse” instead. I think that is quite a normal male thought process. 😉

Based on this I don’t think your husband is being entirely unreasonable. If a member of staff on site didn’t even know that the children had been taken off site by staff then it sounds like it could have been more of a last minute decision, which means they may not have thought of consent forms/risk assessment etc. Particularly if the children and parents are already known to them, they may have been relaxed about it.

I think you need to establish the facts around whether they’ve gained parental consent, done a risk assessment etc before deciding whether he’s overreacted. If those things haven’t been done then the other parents won’t have known where the children are and then the holiday club would have fucked up. I wouldn’t like it if other staff on site had no idea of where the children were and hadn’t been made aware they were off site.

She has said there are reasons but it is a "whole other subject". Which - seeing as though he slept in by an extra hour and a half when he was meant to be dropping the child off - I assume means her DH is incapable of looking after the child successfully on his own for a full day.

Totally OTT!

DH knows he as in the wrong for being so late ( an hour and a half late!) he felt a bit stupid being the parent who didn’t know what was going on so is deflecting.

I think your husband is trying to make it someone else's fault that he dropped your son off 90 minutes late.

I can understand him voicing his concerns after yesterday's tragic events. To you. In private.

I totally agree with you though that he's sowing seeds of anxiety into your young son's head for absolutely no reason - nothing happened and nothing would have happened, as if he'd bothered his arse to be on time they would have asked the question and he could have declined if he wanted to.

I'm not normally on the side of challenging my other half in front of the kids, but in this instance I would. I think it's alarming he can't control his emotions enough to not voice this in front of your child and I'd be sharply telling him to get his shit under control or go and let it out elsewhere.

Honestly, your DH sounds insufferable.

Couldn't be bothered/get his act together to get the child to the club on time. Didn't book the club or really know anything about it, left that all to you. Probably made a bit of a fool of himself by arriving so late and then not knowing what was going on. Has made up some scenario about them being taken offsite without permission - he doesn't know that, he wasn't there this morning. Has reacted in a completely over the top/inappropriate manner to the perceived issue. For some reason doesn't seem to be able to look after his child for a full day. I could go on...

I bet this isn't the first time he's been an absolute pain.

So he does want your ds to go to the park anymore? Really, borderline abusive , no?

What was your dh doing last night? Up late due to holiday so grumpy today?

To be honest, I think you are being way too relaxed that there is no paperwork for anything. They may be paying a fee to the school for the use of the space but there may be no liability insurance in place, some of the staff may be those who work at that site during term time, others may not. No way of knowing. They are relying on contact details you gave them a year ago. It doesn't sound remotely professional so I suspect they are winging it and while it's a total pain in the ass to fill out all this paperwork, it's there for a reason. BUT, if you are comfortable with it, that's completely your right as a parent.

Your DH is being a total prat as he was abominably late, has made no contribution to the effort and hassle factor of sorting out holiday care and feels entitled to make it your problem to sort that he is not comfortable.

If he has concerns he can either take care of your son himself, or take it up with the childcare provider. If he is going to be so late, he should have the courtesy to advise the placement that DS will be late.

I feel like your husband needs explaining why children need to be dropped off on time for these kind of things, given he's still adamant it's unnecessary. Don't know the ages of the children or the specific nature of the club but here's 5 reasons as a starter for 10:

1. They likely have routines over the course of the day for the children. The start of the day is probably the most key one! And could include 'welcome and names, rules for the day, plans for the day so children know what to expect, dividing the children into groups etc.'
2. They may have planned activities for different times of the day. It's chaos if children show up part way through a guided activity after children have already been shown what to do, are partway through making something etc.
3. They will have planned activities / groups / staff for X number of children who are booked to attend the club. If half as many children show up it throws everything off. If you've got 2 children instead of 10 you can't exactly play rounders!
4. If your children can show up at any time it has to be the same rule for everyone, including families with several children or children with additional needs who need more support. This could potentially cause a lot of disruption if they just showed up at a random point in the day
5. Often the provision is significantly subsidised so it's affordable to families. If this is the case then it really isn't fair to have taken one of the spots and then not show up for part of it!

The more professional provision, the more I would expect attending on time to be compulsary.

Sorry to harp on, but as someone who used to run these things it makes me so annoyed!

Also, the attack was inside, not outside.

This wouldn't happen where I work. We have a tick box for different things on the booking form, spontaneous trips to the park being one of them, and we need the parents signature to take their kids off site. If we have a kid in who isn't allowed to be taken off site it means none of us go.

Also for drop offs, it's totally up to the parents what time they drop off as long as it is within their session time. If we decide to go to the park we either wait for all the children to arrive or we phone the stragglers to see when they're coming. Sometimes parents then drop them off to us at the park.

He's massively over-reacting. No amount of pre-warning, signed consent etc could have averted the unfortunate events of yesterday.

Are you sure you hadn't been given a programme for the holiday club anyway?