Are parents in Cambridge uniquely ineffectual?

[ohrly]

Name change. I apologise for the clickbait title, my observations are based solely on our (primary) school and not all parents here.

We moved here six months ago from a more working-class area. Although that area had its problems, parents generally ensured their kids had basic manners, proper grooming, and weren't violent.

However, at my son's new school, I've noticed a significant lack of manners among many kids. Parents don't seem to enforce them either. The children demand things from their parents and others and are generally rude.

There are a few kids, despite being over seven years old, who frequently hit and push others. Parents respond with mild comments like "Oh no, that's not nice" instead of a more assertive, proportionate reaction like, "Do not hit. If you do that again, we will go home."

Parents also don't seem to enforce boundaries effectively. Instead of saying "5 minutes until we leave the park," they ask, "Are you ready to go now? Okay sweetie, no worries."

Moreover, parents often talk about their kids in a way that suggests the children are in control. They say things like, "Oh, she won't let me..." or "Oh, she doesn't like..." A common issue is kids refusing to let their parents brush their hair, resulting in matted hair.

At parties, no parents watch what's happening, and the kids go quite wild. I've had to stop myself from telling off so many kids.

These observations span a mix of nationalities, but all are middle-class families.
Is this a common occurrence now, or is it specific to Cambridge, this school, or the middle classes? Or am I just going mad?!

I honestly thought I was a super liberal parent until I moved here!

YABU - Stop judging / this isn't a real thing
YANBU - Yes these parents sound dreadful

Some who are ‘quite ASD and can’t tell their arse from their elbow’
Well that is pretty horrible to read.

Dearest Emma, did you see where I wrote

Years ago someone said to me that academic families have either one child or at least three …. I can quite understand that things have changed now, though ….

Edited to fix bolding

I didn't expect so many comments, so I watched some telly. Fascinating!

I think it's true that there are many ND, eccentric people here (myself included), and this could be a factor.

As previous posters mentioned, there are also many time-poor parents. When I think about it, most couples I know have two high-flying careers.

However, I don't think neurodivergence and time-poor-ness can fully explain this. It seems more like unassertive parenting. In a place like this, I guess one has to assume it's intentional (aka gentle parenting).

I totally understand what others have said about class in Cambridge. It is the most unequal city in the UK. I am specifically talking about middle-class people in Central Cambridge, which is a serious bubble!

I'm firmly reporting from camp ND middle class university family with a scruffy-haired child - but I have to say, whilst our lot of 7-11yr olds are refusing to stop playing in the park despite the transition timer going off, they are not generally the group in the primary school sharing violent/sexualised content from the internet and using it to silence the girls in class and keep the boys in line as being "Chads, Giga-Chads or not-Chads" at break (which is one issue we have had primary school in Cambridge). I think there are several types of 'ineffectual parenting' in town!

Ineffectual parenting is everywhere- I work in a charity shop. The Liberal parents wander in and allow the children to take stuff off the shelves, whiz stuff around the shop and outside, walk off with items, pick clothes off racks, eat and drink next to the clothing items. They say nothing. The children rule and are rude. There's a middle ground in parenting in my opinion but a lot of parents have no clue. It's shocking.

Also the parents on here who think they parented their children uniquely...but then go on to describe good old fashioned common sense parenting 😂

Maybe I am ineffectual. I'm definitely on the softer side. I didn't hit my kids or shout at them

BOOM. There it is. Every single thread on here that mentions gentle parenting, someone will ALWAYS come on and say that they don't/didn't physically/emotionally abuse their children...as if that's what 'non gentle parenting' people do.

This post stood out to me as I think this encapsulates the vibe here. Everyone is really nice! But they'll waffle on to you about something whilst their child is causing havoc behind them.

It's a very different culture from what I am used to, where pride comes from your children being presentable and polite (and also, of course, other things). And you also watch your children LOL.

Probably these children will all turn out ok in the end? Odds are in their favour.

It's MN logic. Also called inverted snobbery.

My mum still talks about "Robert Sayles" 😁

I agree. These kids might piss people off, but as a group I'm not convinced they have worse outcomes in life.

This is an interesting point and there is some truth in it (I live in central Cambridge). However, Cambridge is a hugely diverse city with families from all over the world, and there is consequently plenty of variation in parenting styles. I suspect that there is an increased tendency for parents to be more heavily invested in their children's academics, and schools and children's extracurriculars are constantly discussed. Most families are very nice though.

Interestingly, some of the (state) secondaries in Cambridge are actually rather strict, which comes as a bit of a shock to those families used to the more liberal primaries.

As a cross-over from another thread, I still use things bought in Robert Sayles. I also remember the Cattle Market, the Kite and also Petty Cury before Lion Yard and (the?) Grand Arcade.

I don’t still talk about Boots Boots and Timothy Boots, though.

Which secondaries have a reputation for being more strict?

Parkside and Coleridge

I’m not in Cambridge but am in the brilliant ND category. We moved from the Home Counties to somewhere extremely rural in Wales. I am just coming through a breakdown (genuinely - CPN and CMHT) after realising I don’t have to be ‘brilliant’ every day any more. Nobody cares here (farming heartland) and they certainly wouldn’t like me any better for knowing. It’s a huge relief, but I’m having to relearn who I am, in a good way.

There are most definitely ineffectual parents, but it’s not because they’re too brilliant or too ND. Some can’t be bothered, one had definitely done too many drugs (don’t see her any more after she let her daughter play on an icy lake which cracked). Lots of very hippy natural parenting. I describe myself as a gentle parent but not permissive. We are an ND family and authoritarian or authoritative parenting doesn’t work for any of us. DCs are brilliant and we’re often complimented on how kind, thoughtful and helpful they are.

Edited to add we did live on the outskirts of Cambridge for a couple of years and DF was heavily involved in Oxford University so I do know the types you mean!

Ha! Very interesting. I look forward to this transition and observing how people cope with it.

This is a very interesting sociological discussion.

Is that perhaps related to main character-syndrome?
Though you see that in various groups of people.

However, some of the behaviour is enabled by economic stability. In order to be independent of what anyone thinks of being subjected to (insert behaviour here), you need to have the means to not worry about experiencing the same in reverse from other people.
Thus you either have the power or the financials to shield your family from unpleasant behaviour of others - for example detached house in a good location, money for tutors, not minding to throw money at things when something doesn't work....

@Icannoteven "To get that sort of level of polite-on-the-surface, oblivious entitlement you have to have had this sort of parenting, I think."

@shuggles

That are the people who always look baffled,surprised and annoyed when others "assert their boundaries", too, and politely ask them to stop whatever is impinging on others in an extreme fashion (for example asking them to stop their child from hitting yours). Because they are so polite, how could they be in the wrong?

With all due respect I've never heard such a ridiculous expression 🤦‍♀️

This is a fascinating thread, I recognise a lot of my life in the discussion and have been pondering on it all evening.
I'm not from Cambridge but I'm the child of an academic of incredible intelligence who is almost certainly autistic and had a very detached style of parenting, and a social worker liberal lefty parent who took us on rallies etc as a child. I went to a private girls school. I was taught girls can and should do everything.
As a result I am an excessive high achiever with a huge amount of anxiety about everything and I overthink, constantly. Obviously I'm vegan for the planet and my kids only wear second hand Frugi.
I have 3 children. 2 are autistic but "high functioning" (hate that phrase but you will know what I mean). I spent all of their babyhoods consuming literature on how to raise emotionally healthy children. Continuum concept, Magda Gerber, all of that. Totally paralysed by overthinking. All of that literature is that if you ruin the connection with your child they will be damaged adults.
Add in autistic children who won't eat/wash/dress without a huge battle and oh, of course, a full time high flying job.
It's a perfect storm of desperately trying to make sure you don't fuck up your kids, anxiety, neuro diversity and, quite honestly, being exhausted. Which is what I recognise in parents like the ones described.

@wejammin I feel you!

I literally just flipped from this thread to Facebook and the first post on my feed was Dr Naomi Fisher on why teaching your children to say No to adults is good parenting.

Yes, quite. It does often seem that children are running the show everywhere.

Yes and that's the thing isn't it - I've taught my children about consent, bodily autonomy, human rights, free speech, etc etc. I'm not 'ineffective', I'm extremely engaged and we're always discussing fascinating concepts. But once you've told a child they have autonomy and rights (because they do, as humans), turns out they want to use them and you have to have a 'debate' 100 times a day. I always say my kids will (I hope) make wonderful adults but it's not easy being their parent!

@wejammin I've taught my children about consent, bodily autonomy, human rights, free speech, etc etc.

What about the more important lessons that children should learn? "Do as you would be done by"? Empathy? Compassion? Showing kindness towards other people? Caring for animals and the environment? Not littering?

It seems a bit strange to start with lessons that should presented to an older child (12 years and older), and not start with the most important and most fundamental morals and ethics.