Are parents in Cambridge uniquely ineffectual?

[ohrly]

Name change. I apologise for the clickbait title, my observations are based solely on our (primary) school and not all parents here.

We moved here six months ago from a more working-class area. Although that area had its problems, parents generally ensured their kids had basic manners, proper grooming, and weren't violent.

However, at my son's new school, I've noticed a significant lack of manners among many kids. Parents don't seem to enforce them either. The children demand things from their parents and others and are generally rude.

There are a few kids, despite being over seven years old, who frequently hit and push others. Parents respond with mild comments like "Oh no, that's not nice" instead of a more assertive, proportionate reaction like, "Do not hit. If you do that again, we will go home."

Parents also don't seem to enforce boundaries effectively. Instead of saying "5 minutes until we leave the park," they ask, "Are you ready to go now? Okay sweetie, no worries."

Moreover, parents often talk about their kids in a way that suggests the children are in control. They say things like, "Oh, she won't let me..." or "Oh, she doesn't like..." A common issue is kids refusing to let their parents brush their hair, resulting in matted hair.

At parties, no parents watch what's happening, and the kids go quite wild. I've had to stop myself from telling off so many kids.

These observations span a mix of nationalities, but all are middle-class families.
Is this a common occurrence now, or is it specific to Cambridge, this school, or the middle classes? Or am I just going mad?!

I honestly thought I was a super liberal parent until I moved here!

YABU - Stop judging / this isn't a real thing
YANBU - Yes these parents sound dreadful

Remember, gentle is only one letter short of neglect.

Parents need to reintroduce a couple of sentences into their repertoire:-

Because I say so

I'm not asking you, I'm telling you

"Parents in a big group utterly permissive of his behaviour like they thought it was a local production of Lord of the Flies"

This made me lololol. Always the fucking wooden swords too, I so recognise this.

@ohrly This is all part of the "me me me" culture. The feelings of others are no longer important, but only yourself. You need to be "strong" and "powerful" and "bold" to stand up for yourself, and if other people get hurt, then that's their problem- if harm is caused to other people, that's not something for you to be worried about.

Contrast this with nations in Asia (for example) which value social cohesion and unity above individual liberties. The children and people are more courteous and helpful.

This selfish culture in the UK will inevitably be the downfall of the nation.

Definitely recognise this kind of parent from when I lived in Hampstead, North London for a time.

I've brought my DC up in Cambridge and haven't noticed a lot of ineffectual parenting but then we are in suburbia in a very mixed town/ gown area: Lots of people from all over the world, some academics, many scientists but also many people born and brought up here with 'normal' jobs and a lot of social housing

Most of the differences in parenting I noticed were cultural/ nationality stuff. Lots of people from Mediterranean countries who let their kids stay up much later and eat later than I would, my Nordic friends think school uniform is very silly and can't understand why we send such young kids to school, Chinese parents thought our class sizes were miniscule and were baffled over learning through play and counteracted it with hefty doses of Kumon.

I think it's been good for my DC to be exposed to a lot of different stuff.

Maybe I am ineffectual. I'm definitely on the softer side. I didn't hit my kids or shout at them but they weren't on the whole very challenging kids. I do have rules, boundaries and expectations and consequences for transgressions but I try to make those natural and not petty. Working OK so far and they are nearly adult now.

Why?

I've never needed to use either of those sentences and I am far from neglectful.

If anything I feel a bit judgy about harsh and disciplinarian parenting styles when I know it's perfectly possible to raise good happy children without being like that

Doing the hard things is often avoided, hence the situations described by the OP. Sadly these ineffectual, lazy parents are quick to get on their high horse when someone else has to deal with the results of the poor attitude, 'The teacher actually raised her voice, my little cherub is twarmatised and will need a lifetime of therapy'.

The children sound like the results of 'gentle parenting' to me!!!
Gentle parenting gets on my nerves.
What is cute and an easy life at 3, 4, 5 years old becomes bratty behaviour at 6 7, 8. By the time the kid is preteen it is very difficult to start saying no and introducing boundaries. If a child has never had these their mind will be blown and won't know how to react except, usually, aggressively. Then you have a problem on your hands!

Its not just Cambridge. Its any naice affluent area where the middle class have read books on 'gentle parenting' and use it to label their personal brand of permissive parenting. Kids run about in dirty clothes with rat tail unbrushed hair and speak to their parents like they are dirt, said parents smile fondly on and think little Araminta and Hugo are just wonderful!

I know an academic type in Cambridge who is totally "child led" so the toddler decides when they get ready and if they don't want to put on their shoes, then they just wait, doesnt matter if theyre late.

And yes, a few turn into nice confident adults (confident? Arrogant) but a good few more go on to become the anxious school refusers when things get tough, because why go to school when you don't want to if you didn't have to brush your hair when you didn't want to.
*yes, i am aware lots of school refusal is very complex and some is due to unmet needs

Can't comment on Cambridge, but where I live is very working class. You're much more likely to hear kids being told to get their arses in gear it's time to go, rather than simpering that they can have another five minutes!

I don't like autism or 'neurodiversity' being blamed or used as an excuse for poor parenting.

My father was diagnosed with asd in his 60's, my diagnosis was in my 30's. Dh has never been officially diagnosed, but it's quite obvious (and mentioned by dc's pediatrician more than once). Dd and ds were both diagnosed at three years old.

If anything, firm boundaries are more important in asd families. They help everyone feel secure when the rules and expectations are clear. I wouldn't even say we are strict, we play and laugh often with dc. But we are their parents first. We have always told them that our job is to make sure they grow into kind, and pleasant adults.

I think I have only had to follow through a couple of times when they hit the 'testing boundaries' phases. Otherwise it has not been necessary because they learnt from a young age that appropriate consequences will happen (like being taken home if they behave badly). Never shouted at or hit dc.

They are always complimented on their behaviour and manners (but it really is just the absolute basics?).

We lived in Cambridge and now live in a suburb of Cambridge.

You're not wrong, OP.

I think that the theraputic approach to behaviour management in maintained Cambridgeshire schools hasn't led to improved behaviour. There may be bits of it that are useful, but as a package, it doesn't feel like something that can be effectively used on the scale of schools.

Neurodiverse people tend not to be defensive. Although people say we wear masks, I find that it’s the neurotyoicals (generally speaking of course) who want to portray themselves in a particular way. I just want openness and a connection. If someone’s competitive and inauthentic I’ll just not bother with them. Which is why I’m usually alone.

I openly admit that I was quite ineffectual, but then I think different children need different types of parenting. My youngest DS has always started crying at the first sign of conflict and I’ve never had any need for boundaries with him. My elderly mother requires far more parenting and I’m finding it infuriating because I think people should be able to manage their own behaviour enough so that boundaries aren’t needed. As has been said, we spend a lot of time analysing things. What does annoy me is when people say things with absolute certainty without any analysis of what they’ve said. No going off on tangents for them!

If someone criticises me I’ll have a good think about whether they have a point….and I guess I’ve just illustrated why our boundaries are weak. We’re never really sure that we’re correct and we’re not very good at pretending to be sure that we’re correct. We weigh everything up, we waffle, we go off on tangents but our ND children appreciate that style of communication. I think🙂.

This is what people like to keep insisting and it baffles me.

Middle class affluent parents = gentle parents = bad parents = unhappy children who can’t get on in life.

But in very general terms, schools dominated by poor attendance, poor results and poor behaviour are not ones in very affluent areas.

I live in Oxford and all of this resonates too!

In defense of the ND explanation, I have one NT and one ND child. My NT child has been described as the most polite child in her class. She is impeccably behaved and attentive at school and out in public. My ND child struggles to task switch, to remember to say her pleases and thank yous. She will argue about leaving the playground, even after building up with a 5 minute warning. Same parenting, but ADHD does make her life considerably harder. Her teachers wouldn't describe her as poorly behaved and she wants to behave. But she does struggle with some things that you might think of as not behaving. Obviously ND children are diverse and some appear impeccably behaved, but not mine!

I’m in cambridge, middle class and a psychologist. I’m very strict parents even though my first son is high functioning autistic person but still mannerism its very important to me. But what you said its true many cambridge parents doing this gentle parenting (IMO its a bit shitty, i dont believe in gentle parenting). In my group of friends only me its the strict parents.

I’m from Cambridge too. Grew up in a village just outside the centre. Now in a south cambs village @Nameychangington i wonder if we know each other… expect I call the leisure park the junction not the cattle market…
Anyway, this isn’t something I recognise from the parents around me, some of who are local and many moved in. Nor is it prevalent in my family/wider circle.
i also think generalisations are not helpful. There are an awful lot of people in and around Cambridge who are nothing to do with the university or the tech/bio industries. It’s also (I think) one of the places in the UK with the biggest gap between the richest and the poorest. Many people here are very privileged / in a
middle class bubble. Many more are not.
I'll get off my soap box now!

Absolutely. I moved because I judged the parenting of many around me to not be the environment in which I wanted my children to grow up. Everyone judges. Judges things to be good, judges things to be bad, judges things to be similar to their way of doing things or judges them to be different. Making choices and changes based on judgements isn't necessarily a bad thing. I judged that cambridge wasn't a good fit for my family, so we left. I'm pretty certain there were people who were glad we left because frankly we didn't fit! It doesn't bother me that they would have judged me to be "different".

And generalisations are just that - "in general", not "absolutely everyone in cambridge is an ineffectual parent", but more that many more families than I've encountered elsewhere display parenting traits described in this thread, and it is a large enough group to make it feel like a general pattern.

You are judging those that left Cambridge to be judgemental and prone to generalisations. Which is a bit of a generalisation ;)

I namechanged to say: woah, this thread is my Oxbridge next door neighbour to an absolute tee.

Through some trick of the acoustic I often hear her through our party wall.
"Oh no, no, that's not nice" she will tell her kids in response to a nuclear-level incident
You get the feeling she doesn't inhabit the same universe as the little people.

We are not in Cambridge though (or Oxford), so the behaviour must spread via networks and friendship groups.

Not just in Cambridge!
I was raised working class and teach in a deprived area now. The vibe is very much 'get to school, listen to your teacher and don't get me into trouble'. My kids go to school not far away and it's fairly mixed and 'normal'. Good cross section of class and nationalities and lots of children of oversees students and professional parents. Never had and issues with kid or parents either at school or parties.
A mere 5 mins away is deep middle class. Uncombed hair, a jumble of second hand, grubby clothes in all the 'right brands', Isla bikes, micro scooters, barefoot shoes and Klean Kanteens. Basically Babipur vomited on them. I'm now a volunteer leader for a popular hobby group and I've never met a group of more entitled, middle class, gently parented brats in my life! They don't listen, ignore the leaders, just flat out say 'no I'm not doing that' and never a please or a thank you.
Give me a classroom of 'chavs' any day.

I'm chuckling at the grooming comments

It's very true that I knew a lot of people who didn't cut (or probably brush) any of their kids hair ever and were very invested in 2nd hand 'good quality' clothes (lots of corduroy) and hand knitted cardigans.

And a different tribe of people at the same school who were all about buzz cuts for boys from age 2 and pierced ears and headbands for baby girls and mini designer gear

Who is to say which of these is right.

I find both of those positions a bit odd and largely dressed my kids in clothes from the supermarket slung in with the weekly shop and hand me downs and gifts from people who gave more of a shit.