Are parents in Cambridge uniquely ineffectual?

[ohrly]

Name change. I apologise for the clickbait title, my observations are based solely on our (primary) school and not all parents here.

We moved here six months ago from a more working-class area. Although that area had its problems, parents generally ensured their kids had basic manners, proper grooming, and weren't violent.

However, at my son's new school, I've noticed a significant lack of manners among many kids. Parents don't seem to enforce them either. The children demand things from their parents and others and are generally rude.

There are a few kids, despite being over seven years old, who frequently hit and push others. Parents respond with mild comments like "Oh no, that's not nice" instead of a more assertive, proportionate reaction like, "Do not hit. If you do that again, we will go home."

Parents also don't seem to enforce boundaries effectively. Instead of saying "5 minutes until we leave the park," they ask, "Are you ready to go now? Okay sweetie, no worries."

Moreover, parents often talk about their kids in a way that suggests the children are in control. They say things like, "Oh, she won't let me..." or "Oh, she doesn't like..." A common issue is kids refusing to let their parents brush their hair, resulting in matted hair.

At parties, no parents watch what's happening, and the kids go quite wild. I've had to stop myself from telling off so many kids.

These observations span a mix of nationalities, but all are middle-class families.
Is this a common occurrence now, or is it specific to Cambridge, this school, or the middle classes? Or am I just going mad?!

I honestly thought I was a super liberal parent until I moved here!

YABU - Stop judging / this isn't a real thing
YANBU - Yes these parents sound dreadful

I don't live in Cambridge but some of the examples you give seem fine to me

• 'are you ready to go now sweetie?' is fine if I'm not in a rush. Different if I've asked them to leave and they ignore me, but you don't mention that
• leaving hair to get matted if hair brushing upsets a child is fine to me. Basic kindness. I used to leave dc1s hair (ND) as it upset him terribly, and it didn't seem worth that level of distress. I cut the worst bits out when he was asleep, and he came round in time.

Hitting or hurting others is different and does need firm boundaries, as does limits around screen time etc, but I don't think the 2 examples above are 'ineffectual parenting'

I live in a very middle class area and your post really resonates. It’s like parents have given up, are too embarrassed to discipline their kids or just don’t know how to parent. The behaviour problems in my local middle class primary school are wild. And the class parties… I don’t let my child go anymore they’re so rough. It wasn’t like this with my eldest child a few years ago.

I wonder if it's the school OP / if there's something about the school which is attracting a particular kind of parent?

In my neighbourhood (nowhere near Cambridge) there are two primary schools. One has a uniform, is quite hot on discipline, generally has a reputation of pushing kids hard. The other is no-uniform, heavily play-based for several years beyond reception, ditched KS1 Sats, really into the arts etc etc - which is all lovely, but it attracts some really shit parents who are into an ineffectual form of gentle parenting.

This thread is clearly catnip to MNetters, who adore to bitch about gentle parents and middle class parents.

I wonder how many will purposefully send their child to a school in a deprived area, to avoid them. Not many, I bet.

There is a very liberal, academic bubble about Cambridge and so there is a concentration of people who might read extensively about pregnancy and parenting psychology - and gentle parenting has obviously been a thing in the last decade or so.

SO ineffectual! We pulled ours out of a cambridge primary school last year and moved out of the area because of it... it was ruining our kids' school experience because their peers were so entitled and obnoxious, and the parents were seemingly doing nothing, and there was precious little the school could do when it was the vast majority of the class that were so awful. Just arrogant little brats, and parents who claimed there was nothing they could do.

We're far happier away from it. I think it's a way off life that isn't for everyone. We found it weirdly competitive, but also like parents only wanted academic/ sporting success for their kids, not actually caring about whether they turned out to be nice people or not...

We've found a place with much more grounded parenting and rounded children - they have both manners and aspirations, and it's a lovely mix!

It’s not just Cambridge, it’s anywhere with middle class bohemian types. I’m in Bristol and from a working class background and was similarly surprised by the middle class, ineffectual parenting here.

To be honest, I’m not sure how I feel about it. The kids seem more assertive - which may do them good in later life? I joined the civil service a few years ago after spending most of my life working in the private sector and I think this sort of environment is where these sort of kids end up working once they have grown up. To get that sort of level of polite-on-the-surface, oblivious entitlement you have to have had this sort of parenting, I think.

I live in a naice, leafy, middle-class suburb in NI and don't recognise this at all. The word no features heavily in parenting here.

I've witnessed it in the wild in similarly middle-class areas of Dublin but it's not the norm there either thankfully.

Interesting discussion. I was musing on a vaguely related topic the other day. I have a friend who is a very firm and effective parent and tolerates absolutely no bullshit... but her kids aren't very confident and wouldn't dream of stepping out of line. I have another friend who is much more "chilled" (or permissive, if you prefer 😂) and her kids can be right pains in the arse, but have no problem standing up for themselves and their "rights". If they've been promised ice cream, for example, they'd better get it or all hell breaks loose.

Which kids will do better later on in life? Hard to tell really.

I'm in Cambridgeshire so my kids are in a suburb primary rather than city primary, and I work in the city centre.

I see this a bit. A lot of parents are genuinely trying their hardest and we get an awful lot of gentle parenting and therapeutic parenting talk from schools and local services. Most families I know have both parents in high pressure roles, as the house prices dictate that both parents need to work (mostly FT). They're time poor as a result and living a constant juggle and that might result in a "pick your battles" mentality at times.

As people mentioned above, ND is probably higher here and there is a lot of awareness and discussion on this and parenting styles to suit ADHD children (for example) is often a low demands approach, which to outsiders might look like the child being the leader and making the rules.

I live in Cambridge and I don't know many people who parent like this - 1 or 2, yes. My child is preschool though, maybe primary school culture is different.

I have noticed that a lot of adults in Cambridge don't have basic manners though, like saying thank you if someone lets them pass in the street. It's not surprising if that gets reflected in bad manners in children.

It’s true it is in part linked to money. Historically, poor Victorian children would be taught to obey orders because that was what they’d have to do - as servants or factory workers or in the army.

I really don’t think it’s the case that schools in affluent areas are filled with badly behaved children though. And that certainly doesn’t tally with my teaching experiences. Usually, poor behaviour and poor literacy skills in particular are strongly linked.

I grew up in Oxford which obviously is similar and I recognise a lot of this.

It’s the weird combination of super academic competition with an odd lack of social and emotional awareness. (A fair bit is neurodiversity but it’s more than that too.) People taking pride in being socially gauche to the point of rudeness and convincing themselves it’s because they are too intellectual to worry about day to day concerns.

The stealth snobbery masquerading as liberal conscience. The pointedly poor dressing. The endless academic oneupmanship. Also surprisingly incestuous and inward looking for what is supposed to be a global seat of learning. A lot of my former friends and peers have never left.

I lived there for years and while there was lots to love about it I never made peace with its weird, insular culture and almost impenetrable social class codes. I almost prefer good old fashioned down to earth money snobbery: at least you know where you are with it.

Ha. I'm a Cambridge parent, and I can see some truth in the generalisation, but I'd like to point out that there are working class people in Cambridge too - not a huge number, given the shocking house prices, but there is some social housing. Of course all the middle class people try desperately to get their kids into the middle class primary schools; god forbid they should go to a school with a more mixed demographic. We actually went for a more mixed school.

Anyway. There is definitely a lot of gentle / permissive parenting around, and I didn't realise it was a Cambridge thing - I think it's more of a middle class thing tbh. I remember taking mine to baby/toddler groups, soft play etc and lots of mothers saying "kind hands" in super calm, gentle voices to their kid after they just whacked another kid Drove me mad. I definitely felt/feel judged for talking to my child in a sharp voice but they'd also judge me if I let my kid go on a rampage so you can't win!

I do feel somewhat validated by this thread

It’s a special kind of shit ineffectual lentil knitting parenting. There’s a lot of “ND” masking shit parenting.

Contrast the white middle class gentle parenting with the Asian (both East and South) parents - they live cheek by jowl in Cambridge with vastly different results.

Shelford is full of this kind of shite and they’re now surprised that behaviour at Shelford primary was RI in their recent Ofsted. In a less privileged part of the country that school would have gone straight to inadequate after the behaviour in that school.

Honestly, it’s completely different in Cambridge. I have a foot in both NI and Cambridge so frequently do back to back comparisons 😁

I don’t live in Cambridge, but I am a middle class ND academic with a ND child. We do parent our child in a very distinct fashion. She is a teen now and we get compliments on her good manners and achievements so I know we have been successful.

I would describe the technique as engaging the children as active participants. It’s not quite the same as treating them as equals, but it acknowledges they are people with opinions who should be able to discuss family rules and policies with you. They have a right to understand why something needs to be done, not just be told to do it. Sometimes the reason comes down to ‘compliance with social convention’, but because you admit the rules are ridiculous it becomes easier to accept them and comply.

Well it’s a trade off…. My kids are teenagers now and I admit for the most part I do find their local friends much nicer than kids of our friends who have grown up in more competitive areas. But I expect the schools are higher achieving in those areas and growing up in non competitive areas hasn’t allowed mine to magically side step emotional difficulties.
I definitely appreciated reading Mumsnet threads about competitive mums while experiencing only supportiveness and camaraderie from school mums in real life.

Moving to Cambridge from East London and slightly amused by this thread. Similar is very common here too. We do not practice this sort of parenting though and send our kids to a super-strict Catholic primary… any suggestions for less permissive Cambridge primaries (state or private) welcome!

Was just able to say Bristol is like this too but a PP beat me to it!

I'd call it positive parenting, which is what I try to do. I have a ND child although not ND myself.

I live in central Cambridge, have done for over 25 years and have DC in school. This is such a bizarre generalisation.

Specifically which area? There are outstanding state primary and secondaries less than a mile from schools suffering deprivation.

You’ll know Cambridge is a very transient place and people move in/out for work. Having lived here so long I can count on 1 hand the number of people I regularly interact which who were born in the city.

In DC class, a very middle class school (your words) there are 3 British born parents. Everyone is a complete mix of nationalities, so I find what you’re describing odd since it’s transcends cultures. I haven’t experienced behaviour problems and find the parents to be ‘effective’ - but then I tend not to hang around with people who are annoying.

Is moving back to the place where all the great parents are, an option?

Well this thread is fascinating .

Have no experience of Cambridge whatsoever and so was expecting the OP to get her arse handed back to her.

I have experienced that kind of parent generally and they've definitely been very middle class but I had no idea it was a particular 'thing' in Cambridge.

Going by this thread, if you find the most deprived areas of the UK you’ll also find the best parents with perfectly behaved children.