Are parents in Cambridge uniquely ineffectual?

[ohrly]

Name change. I apologise for the clickbait title, my observations are based solely on our (primary) school and not all parents here.

We moved here six months ago from a more working-class area. Although that area had its problems, parents generally ensured their kids had basic manners, proper grooming, and weren't violent.

However, at my son's new school, I've noticed a significant lack of manners among many kids. Parents don't seem to enforce them either. The children demand things from their parents and others and are generally rude.

There are a few kids, despite being over seven years old, who frequently hit and push others. Parents respond with mild comments like "Oh no, that's not nice" instead of a more assertive, proportionate reaction like, "Do not hit. If you do that again, we will go home."

Parents also don't seem to enforce boundaries effectively. Instead of saying "5 minutes until we leave the park," they ask, "Are you ready to go now? Okay sweetie, no worries."

Moreover, parents often talk about their kids in a way that suggests the children are in control. They say things like, "Oh, she won't let me..." or "Oh, she doesn't like..." A common issue is kids refusing to let their parents brush their hair, resulting in matted hair.

At parties, no parents watch what's happening, and the kids go quite wild. I've had to stop myself from telling off so many kids.

These observations span a mix of nationalities, but all are middle-class families.
Is this a common occurrence now, or is it specific to Cambridge, this school, or the middle classes? Or am I just going mad?!

I honestly thought I was a super liberal parent until I moved here!

YABU - Stop judging / this isn't a real thing
YANBU - Yes these parents sound dreadful

Crikey! Hopefully your children didn't cotton on to the fact you were the only mean (effective) parent in the bunch. That'd either make them really grateful or utterly confused 😕.

I have thought about this a lot wrt a family that we lived next door to while my kids were growing up. Both parents successful Oxbridge educated academics, all their friends were from college days, many of those were childfree. I found the atmosphere at their house fairly precious. Their sons when small were unbelievably badly behaved and they were totally oblivious. It was almost fascinating to watch. One in particular could literally be bashing another kid over the head with a spade and they would just not notice, he was an absolute horror, to the point that their name would invoke eye rolls across the neighbourhood.

But what I find really interesting is that both boys are now super confident, which isn't surprising, but also, are really nice. Their parents are actually nice kind people and I suppose that that rubbed off on them, but there was definitely a sense that they assumed their kids were destined for great academic things and they weren't going to worry about the small stuff.

I think that lower levels of grandparent involvement is definitely a thing. However from what I've seen from folks I know, if the kids are a problem the grandparents are often tricky too. The parents can get really quite frazzled being between them.

Other factors include very rapid turnaround of people as many people are only here for a few years before moving on.

A friend of mine who has a kid at the University of Cambridge Primary School remarked to me recently that she has seen absolutely no instances of bullying at all in her child's entire time there, which I thought was really lovely. Suggests that both parents and school are doing a great job.

IME this type of ‘parenting’ is geographically everywhere but I would say in smaller numbers in my area than yours. I have friends and family who bend to the will of their children and it has resulted in absolute brats. My best friend is so terrified of her child that she wants me to keep it a secret that we’re having a day out together because her son definitely won’t let her go if he finds out she’s doing something without him! That is just absolutely bizarre to me. I don’t really understand how they expect their children to function in society as adults with this upbringing.

Anyone notice that people moving into a new area are judgemental and prone to generalisations? 😁

My DB and partner are both professors, met at Oxbridge, three DC 😁

I would be looking quite closely at the kid though to see if there are behavioural issues at play.

It's easy to generalise isn't it.

I went down quite a gentle parenting route (I didn't call it that, I just followed my instincts. I was a single parent and went for why felt right)

They have always been praised for their behaviour at school, are socially and academically successful and well rounded and we are all very close. They are helpful and considerate and funny. They always get glowing school report and have good groups of friends.

They knew I took their views into consideration when I could, so they trust me when I teach them my values.

Maybe it wouldn't work for all children but it certainly worked well for mine

This reminds me of a child from Cambridge who joined my DCs' school in reception. The mother regularly took me to one side to explain how clever her DS was (subtext - compared with mine). She proudly showed me how well he formed his letters. A couple of years later, she discovered he was "just" average at school, so she had him assessed privately for dyslexia. When I asked how it went, she claimed the tests came back that he was "slightly dyslexic", which explained why he wasn't top of the class like his older sister was. They moved back to Cambridge when her husband got a professorship!

I’ve taught in Cambridge for a long time, including at both the independent non-language schools now on Bateman Street, 😀and I don’t recognise this.

The difference may well be that I teach in secondary schools where we see the parents much less and students are expected to behave well, at least where I can see them.

Three of my friends look after their grandchildren. Only one of those three friends grew up in Cambridge, though.

Just the general, unsurprising behaviour of a kid that’s never been told no

That sounds really hard work. I can't imagine just never putting in boundaries.

There seems to be a few mentions of “gentle parenting” on this thread. It seems some people are actually confusing gentle parenting with Permissive parenting. Very different. Gentle parenting has a strong emphasis on secure attachment and natural consequences. Most certainly not a free for all child rules the roost set up that some posters describe.

Very interesting thread.

I grew up in a working class town and I remember part of the reason my mum wanted me to look immaculate is because she 'didn't want the social around' so I wonder if that is part of it too. Middle class parents can generally not be as concerned if their little darling looks a bit unkept.

My brother was a sports coach. I asked if there were any children that would simply not listen to guidance. His response was "what, Teacher's children?"
The entitlement is a boon for children of either sex, they will ask for pay rises outside of the appraisal cycle and expect perks more usually associated with more senior roles.
Financially, the children of stricter parents seem (to me) to do better in trades as they have been brought up to deliver on commitments rather than having the dog eat their homework.

Not true, I know several academic families in Cambridge with 2 children. Most families - academic or not - seem to have 2 children actually. (My own included!)

I very much enjoy your description of the civil service 😂I joined a year ago and by god. Everyone is so polite yet vaguely passive aggressive and NOTHING GETS DONE.

No idea if this is the same phenomenon, but I've worked with school groups for many years and have found the children from better off areas unappreciative and rude compared to those from more deprived areas. This is North of England.

But what is so interesting about this thread are all the Cambridge parents who are admitting that the stereotype is true. I've not seen this sort of response in a thread like this before - people are normally very defensive.

NC for this thread (obviously).

I am Cambridge born and bred, 4th generation. Actual Cambridge parents aren't like this, but there are extremely few of us in the city because we have been priced out. I now live in what passes for a 'rough' village by South Cambs standards, and see extremely little of the kind of parenting described on the thread.

You can tell actual Cambridge people cos we call Arbury, The Arbury, we call the leisure park the cattle market, we call the Grand Arcade Lion Yard and we don't say 'kind hands' in a weedy voice.

<Goes back to knowing her place>

In some areas, teachers are seen as authority figures. In others, they are seen as service-providers.

We camp at a certain pop up campsite every August which is popular with the gentle parenting set.

By and large I couldn’t care less how anyone else brings their child up. I have friends from the estate whose kids are head to toe in sports gear, boys with gelled combovers and girls with bows from babies and I have lentil weaving still breastfeeding at 5 years old mates.

But the second your gentle parented child steps one toe over the line and puts a finger on my kid you’d better believe they are about to learn a short sharp lesson.

At camping there is a huge hay barn for the kids to play in. There was a child literally menacing any other kid who attempted to play as he was “king of the hay” . Literally shoving kids off and whacking them with his wooden sword (why do they always have fucking wooden swords). Parents in a big group utterly permissive of his behaviour like they thought it was a local production of Lord of the Flies.

DD went to play and got the same treatment from him. The utter horror when all 4 of her siblings barrelled down on him was a thing of beauty.

I do a voluntary activity where I work with family groups and school parties and this is absolutely my experience. Most people no matter what class are lovely but the obnoxious school groups are private schools and the most appreciative families are working class.

@TotallyIneffectual and @CharlotteLucas3 - you basically described Clapham where I live! I guess it's understandable as the social mix is probably vert similar. Lots of people here are Oxbridge / boarding schools educated, and, probably because we are on the Northern Line, most work in finance. banking, insurance, IT. There is really so little variety... I have experience of both state and private schools (social mix seems pretty similar) and, honestly, so many people are like clones of each other... Same jobs, same interests, even same holiday destinations. I'm also sandwiched between those totally stuck up / God's gift to the world types and those who are clearly on the spectrum. I much prefer the latter group but, being a very social person who used to work in media, I struggle a lot... I've been here for years now so got used to it but I really thought there was something wrong with me at the beginning.

I find the parenting style here often quite shocking - it seems to be 90% gentle / "progressive" parenting - sometimes coming from people who genuinely think their kids are amazing and can do no wrong and sometimes because some parents are simply totally socially unaware or unable to parent otherwise. Lots of kids here are little spoilt prats. I don't mean everyone of course but a LOT.

My husband comes from another town, more down to earth. When we visit I feel that I can finally breathe the kids definitely have more manners, generally speaking

Yanbu but only because your anecdote matches anecdotes I have heard. I know someone who is a nursery manager and she said the biggest shift she’s seen in her 30 years of experience is parents now give their children too much choice about things. Your park example demonstrates this perfectly in that it’s the kid choosing when to leave not the parents.