Page 11 | Ballerina farm - just fell down a rabbit hole

Mamabear04 · 2024-07-28T08:59:28+00:00

Just fell down a rabbit hole looking at this Instagram account. Of course it can't be true or surely even close to it? I feel so sorry for her, she seems too tired to even smile most of the time. She prides herself on being a servant to her family but it doesn't look like she enjoys it. Also 8 kids by 34? Anyone from or have a ginormous family - what's your experience of living with so many kids/siblings? Does it look like this? Surely the woman has cleaners and although she "helps out" on the farm, they will have a huge amount of staff no? I don't know why I'm obsessed with this this morning...maybe I'm bored of the Kardashians now!

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:10

But the fact that so many women here say ballerina farm is without a doubt abuse, she has no choice, she's been coerced feels so anti-feminist.

But she basically says herself she was coerced - it's been quoted in several articles now and mentioned multiple times on this thread alone.

I'm in no doubt that some women genuinely want to live like this (though I'd wonder why men never do) - I just don't believe, from what I've read, that Hannah is one of those people.

DysonSphere · 28/07/2024 17:13

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 16:55

I find your post here quite dismissive and aggressive - e.g. ‘you’ve said nothing here’ and ‘I believe my assessment of the situation is right - stalemate’. That’s very rude and it’s actually wrong. I think my posts have substance to them and they clearly express my point of view.

I think you and I are agreeing more than you realise. In my post that you’ve quoted here, I agree with you that you have one view of this situation and almost everyone else has a different view.

My view of Hannah’s situation is that the fame and economic privilege she has gained through her marriage and her Instagram account is hard-won. To achieve that fame and economic success, she has sacrificed her own career aspirations and her personal freedom and future options.

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Firstly apologies.

Secondly. She has a career. She helps run a big business. It's just different. A different path.

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:20

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:10

But the fact that so many women here say ballerina farm is without a doubt abuse, she has no choice, she's been coerced feels so anti-feminist.

But she basically says herself she was coerced - it's been quoted in several articles now and mentioned multiple times on this thread alone.

I'm in no doubt that some women genuinely want to live like this (though I'd wonder why men never do) - I just don't believe, from what I've read, that Hannah is one of those people.

Edited

"I'm in no doubt that some women genuinely want to live like this (though I'd wonder why men never do) - I just don't believe, from what I've read, that Hannah is one of those people."

Okay that's fair. Entirely reasonable to make your own assessment on her life and come to that conclusion.

I think my issue is that most people didn't say "it's an entirely legitimate way to live-but from what I've read, she seems like she was coerced into this lifestyle'.

Most of them are bashing the whole trad wife lifestyle.
Touting examples like the duggars, Lott's and rube franke as representative of most woman who have a more traditional marriage .

When in reality, there are probably more sahm who look after their husband and children, than working women if you take Asia, Africa etc into consideration.
It's not an abnormal thing to do and the vast majority of those woman are not represented by ruby franke...
I take exception to the fact that we're in essence being compared to the likes of people in the Mormon cult?

DysonSphere · 28/07/2024 17:20

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:07

See this is my underlying problem with this thread too.
Obviously there are many women who are in religious sects that may be forced into having so many babies and caring for their husbands etc.
But the fact that so many women here say ballerina farm is without a doubt abuse, she has no choice, she's been coerced feels so anti-feminist.
It's the age old problem we see with modern feminists.
'we support women's choices!'.'you can be anything you want!!'
Ehhm expect if it doesn't for into our narrative. Do you want to stay at home, have loads of babies and cook for your husband? NO, just NO. That's not empowered! You can't choose that! And is you did -we know it was really the patriarchy brainwashing you.
And that's my problem, people make women who choose to stay at home and do 95% of childrearing and domestic duties out as some dumb, brainwashed woman with no agency.

I feel it in real life, how other woman look down on me for staying at home. They think I lack ambition and are prob a bit dull. They need the 'stimulation' of a 9-5 job. Always implying I don't need stimulation(ie must be pretty unintelligent to be able to be happy to stay at home and do laundry and not say no to sex and cook meals FOR my husband)

To me it's not even about the BF case, it's the fact that once again people are putting us down for choosing that lifestyle.

"There is no way she would have chosen that." No woman in her right mind would ever choose to be subservient in that role.
And we can't convince you that some of us did choose it. Because of some opinion of some journalist whose probably also one of the I'm- a -feminist- as- long -as- you- choose-working- outside -the-home types.
That's what is a bit infuriating at least to me. Like how do I convince you guys that I LOVE what I do??

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Great post and I see your point 100%. It's a real dichotomy in the feminist conversation.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:28

Touting examples like the duggars, Lott's and rube franke as representative of most woman who have a more traditional marriage

I take exception to the fact that we're in essence being compared to the likes of people in the Mormon cult?

I may have missed it, but I genuinely can't see where anyone on here has done either of those things.

People are (maybe wrongly) comparing the Tradwife movement with fundamentalist extremist Christians like the Frankes and the Duggars, but I haven't seen anyone comparing those people with more run of the mill stay at home parents

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 17:33

SirSidneyRuffDiamond · 28/07/2024 17:03

I've taken a quick look at some of Megan Agnew's previous articles and many have a certain "flavour" to them as if she has constructed them to confirm a predetermined viewpoint or agenda. Now all journalists do this to a certain extent, but it is always good to keep in mind that journalistic motivations may not be as straightforward as some readers might expect. With a US election on the horizon there might be a vested interest in presenting the "traditional conservative family" so beloved of the Trump team in an unflattering light. Now once again that is not to say that Hannah is not a coerced or controlled wife, but bear in mind that both Hannah and Daniel must have agreed to the interview. For what reason? And did they understand how their words might be interpreted?

I take issue with PPs assuming that Daniel prayed for guidance on when to have another child. It was Hannah who does this. Daniel quipped that this curiously occurred when the previous baby was 9 months old. This could equally be seen as him jokingly acknowledging that Hannah is in control of reproductive spacing. We don't know "how" this was said because Megan Agnew doesn't say explicitly.

Hannah's lovely clothes are boxed up and stored? Well she still wears some lovely outfits, even on normal farm days. On church days she projects a pretty and wholesome image. When they go out to events she gets very dressed up in beautiful gowns and shoes. She even does make up and skincare videos as part of her brand image. None of this is by chance - she took social media courses and clearly curates her whole image online. Maybe Daniel forces her to do so. Maybe it is how she helps monetise Ballerina Farm.

I am suspicious as to the engineering and timing of this sudden media spotlight on Ballerina Farm. Why Hannah, why now? These events do not happen by chance.

What sort of ‘flavour’ or agenda do Megan Agnew’s articles have? I’ve read the Times and Sunday Times for a long time, and have of course read her articles as part of this. I think they’re well written and I enjoy reading them. I haven’t noticed a particular pattern in any of her articles though. That might just be me though - I’d be interested to se if anyone else who regularly reads her articles thinks the same or differently.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:35

I don't think anyone is saying that the Tradwife lifestyle being portrayed on TikTok and social media is anything like a more modern day "stay at home parent" set up - they are two very, very different things.

People's concerns are coming from the fact that Hannah didn't want to get married early, she didn't want children early - because she knew it would impact her career. She wanted to wait. And then seemingly wasn't given a choice and was pressured into giving up her dream.

Surely any decent man, millionaire or not, would be encouraging his potential wife to pursue what she loved? Especially at such a young age when they had years ahead of them to settle down and have a family?

If he's a good man who truly loves her, why has all her stuff been boxed up and put in the garage? Why has her ballet studio been converted to a home school building when they have more than enough money to do both? Why didn't he let her pursue her dreams at the age of 21?

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 17:37

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:35

I don't think anyone is saying that the Tradwife lifestyle being portrayed on TikTok and social media is anything like a more modern day "stay at home parent" set up - they are two very, very different things.

People's concerns are coming from the fact that Hannah didn't want to get married early, she didn't want children early - because she knew it would impact her career. She wanted to wait. And then seemingly wasn't given a choice and was pressured into giving up her dream.

Surely any decent man, millionaire or not, would be encouraging his potential wife to pursue what she loved? Especially at such a young age when they had years ahead of them to settle down and have a family?

If he's a good man who truly loves her, why has all her stuff been boxed up and put in the garage? Why has her ballet studio been converted to a home school building when they have more than enough money to do both? Why didn't he let her pursue her dreams at the age of 21?

I completely agree with this.

Schoolchoicesucks · 28/07/2024 17:39

MotherWol · 28/07/2024 12:15

This was the part of the interview that I found most disturbing; the interviewer asks if she plans her pregnancies and she implies that no, she just accepts it as ‘god’s will’. Then her husband points out that there’s a nine month gap between her children. He’s insistent on it.

He’s clearly pointing out that he’s intentionally getting her pregnant when she’s immediately postpartum, because he knows she can’t prevent it. He’s literally bragging about abusing her and demonstrating his control.

9 months as in there are 18 months between the kids (so she has 9 months after giving birth - breastfeeding preventing pregnancy perhaps- before getting pregnant again)? Or 9 months as in there's 9 months between the kids so she gives birth and gets pregnant again immediately?

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:41

Schoolchoicesucks · 28/07/2024 17:39

9 months as in there are 18 months between the kids (so she has 9 months after giving birth - breastfeeding preventing pregnancy perhaps- before getting pregnant again)? Or 9 months as in there's 9 months between the kids so she gives birth and gets pregnant again immediately?

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18 months between the babies

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:44

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:35

I don't think anyone is saying that the Tradwife lifestyle being portrayed on TikTok and social media is anything like a more modern day "stay at home parent" set up - they are two very, very different things.

People's concerns are coming from the fact that Hannah didn't want to get married early, she didn't want children early - because she knew it would impact her career. She wanted to wait. And then seemingly wasn't given a choice and was pressured into giving up her dream.

Surely any decent man, millionaire or not, would be encouraging his potential wife to pursue what she loved? Especially at such a young age when they had years ahead of them to settle down and have a family?

If he's a good man who truly loves her, why has all her stuff been boxed up and put in the garage? Why has her ballet studio been converted to a home school building when they have more than enough money to do both? Why didn't he let her pursue her dreams at the age of 21?

I don't think they're so different. I don't get what they difference is. It is not like the what you call trad wives get water from a well and live by candle light. They do what the rest of us do. Cooking,cleaning, babies, breastfeeding, maybe homeschooling, veggie patch (or full on homesteading if you're in america, moslty). What's the difference? Upthread you said it is choice that's the difference. So how do you know who is sahm and who is trad-wives?

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 17:51

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:44

I don't think they're so different. I don't get what they difference is. It is not like the what you call trad wives get water from a well and live by candle light. They do what the rest of us do. Cooking,cleaning, babies, breastfeeding, maybe homeschooling, veggie patch (or full on homesteading if you're in america, moslty). What's the difference? Upthread you said it is choice that's the difference. So how do you know who is sahm and who is trad-wives?

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I guess one difference is that SAHM generally have access to modern technology and equipment that many trad wife trend supporters don’t.

The other difference is that SAHM generally go into a SAHM set-up with full agreement and support from themselves and their partners.

I realise both these points are generalisations. They’re my observations from what I’ve seen of SAHM in my own life and on here, and from what I’ve read in the media about trad wives (as I’ve never met anyone who’s a trad wife - only read them about them in the papers).

ColinMyWifeBridgerton · 28/07/2024 17:53

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 11:47

What's drudgery to you isn't to someone else. I'm a SAHM and people are forever asking me, 'dont you find it Soo boring?:.
And normally add some condescending 'ooh I could never do that I need to be stimulated '
Honestly your job as a pa or secretary or solicitor sounds pure drudgery to me. I wouldn't find making photocopies, doing admin, preparing court documents for the umpteenth time, anything but boring.
So just because you like labouring outside of the home, doesn't mean everyone does.
We live on a farm (orangerie) and I cannot tell you the joy I find in picking fresh oranges every morning and juicing them for breakfast.
Making home made lemonade on hot summer days.
I love cooking with the herbs in our back garden with my kids at my feet.
Etc.
I can't think of something more boring than being at the beck and call of your (usually male) boss .
I much prefer making a sandwich for my husband and trying to cook and wear what he likes.
Just because you wouldn't like it doesn't mean it's abuse or a weird culture(not saying you said it's abuse)
(Also obv not all jobs are for a boss and repetitive, but most are)
Btw I'm not trying to single your post out, I just answered on yours.

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This all sounds delightful, apart from the bit about you like wearing what your husband likes. I don't have to wear what my boss likes!

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:55

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:44

I don't think they're so different. I don't get what they difference is. It is not like the what you call trad wives get water from a well and live by candle light. They do what the rest of us do. Cooking,cleaning, babies, breastfeeding, maybe homeschooling, veggie patch (or full on homesteading if you're in america, moslty). What's the difference? Upthread you said it is choice that's the difference. So how do you know who is sahm and who is trad-wives?

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I mean, of course you can never know for certain - only the people involved in the relationship can ever know the true dynamics. That goes for all marriages.

But yes, I'd say choice plays a huge part. This woman dreamt of Juilliard and now all her stuff is boxed up in the garage and her dance studio is a room where her kids are educated. It just makes me really sad for her. Even if it's not abuse in the "typical" sense - even if she has money and help - it seems so soul crushing because deep down, it's not what she wanted - at least, not right away. She wanted to dance.

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:58

ColinMyWifeBridgerton · 28/07/2024 17:53

This all sounds delightful, apart from the bit about you like wearing what your husband likes. I don't have to wear what my boss likes!

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You do though? You have a dress code. If you work in the NHS you have to wear scubs/ uniform. In court you have to wear a certain attire, as a teacher, you name it. If you rock up at work in a crochet bralette and fishnet stockings with a mini skirt, you'd be sent home.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 17:58

Also, it may not come across that way, but I have no issue with a lot of stuff Hannah does - homesteading, cooking from scratch, breastfeeding, home education, taking on the "nurturer" role - it's all great if that's what you truly want to do with your life, but I just get the sense that it's not what she really wanted.

I also think I take issue with all this stuff because it's never men who choose to stay at home, to cook, to clean, to home educate, to give up their dreams. It's always women.

MattSmithsBowTie · 28/07/2024 17:58

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:01

What on Earth is a ‘one-push baby’? I don’t have children yet, so I appreciate perhaps I can’t fully understand anyway. But a ‘one-push baby’ sounds like childbirth is a walk in the park that’s quick and smooth - and even I know it’s not!

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I had a no push baby, I felt maybe 3 or 4 contractions about a minute apart and then the baby came out, I didn’t push at all. I didn’t even make it to the car with my hospital bag. I believe it’s call precipitous labour when the contractions happen but you don’t really feel them.

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 18:00

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:58

You do though? You have a dress code. If you work in the NHS you have to wear scubs/ uniform. In court you have to wear a certain attire, as a teacher, you name it. If you rock up at work in a crochet bralette and fishnet stockings with a mini skirt, you'd be sent home.

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This is facetious for me to say, but a work dress code (for practicality and professionalism) and dressing to please a husband are two different things. For me, the red flag is if a woman wanted to wear something for her own comfort and pleasure and she then decided against it because her husband/boyfriend/male partner wouldn’t like it. That to me is a sign of an unhealthy relationship.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 18:01

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 17:58

You do though? You have a dress code. If you work in the NHS you have to wear scubs/ uniform. In court you have to wear a certain attire, as a teacher, you name it. If you rock up at work in a crochet bralette and fishnet stockings with a mini skirt, you'd be sent home.

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I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think there's a huge difference between paid employment that comes with a uniform and a contract, and having a "uniform" around your own home because it's what your husband wants.

What if you didn't want to wear "his choice" of clothes anymore? How would he react? What if you decided you wanted to work - would he truly be okay with that?

Obviously you don't have to answer, I'm just curious how it would work in reality if you didn't want to be at home anymore.

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 18:03

@sunsetsandboardwalks
I hear you and as I said, we're all entitled to our assessment of other people's lives. They might be the furthest thing from the truth, but you can think what you like! :)

Well, I would argue that that's not wird at all. while you do get stay at home dads, yes the vast majority are moms. Surely our hormones, the fact that men cannot breastfeed, nurturing is generally speaking a female characteristic. Surely that's understandable?

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 28/07/2024 18:06

I had 6 children by 28.

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 18:08

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 18:03

@sunsetsandboardwalks
I hear you and as I said, we're all entitled to our assessment of other people's lives. They might be the furthest thing from the truth, but you can think what you like! :)

Well, I would argue that that's not wird at all. while you do get stay at home dads, yes the vast majority are moms. Surely our hormones, the fact that men cannot breastfeed, nurturing is generally speaking a female characteristic. Surely that's understandable?

I don’t think @sunsetsandboardwalks is making any sort of assessment of your life here. She’s saying there is a difference between having a work dress code and wearing something in your home because your husband likes it, and she’s asking what the consequences would be if you chose not to wear something your husband liked.

BeautyPageantDropout · 28/07/2024 18:10

newnamechangeforthisone · 28/07/2024 17:01

@BeautyPageantDropout

did you get married and have children young? that must make it difficult for many mormon women to extricate themselves from the church and the lifestyle.

Yes, I had four children and married young. We all left though. my husband left with me. The culture is quite damaging, I write letters to my "future husband" from aged 12. We weee groomed to be wives and mothers.

great that you saw the light, so to speak, as a couple and left as a family unit. I'd imagine that's quite rare and it's more usual for one spouse (more likely the woman I'm guessing) to want to leave and the other spouse vehemently disagreeing.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 18:12

Well, I would argue that that's not wird at all. while you do get stay at home dads, yes the vast majority are moms. Surely our hormones, the fact that men cannot breastfeed, nurturing is generally speaking a female characteristic. Surely that's understandable?

I don't agree that women are any more nurturing than men are, and I don't see what breastfeeding has to do with being a stay-at-home parent either, but then I was breastfed while both my parents worked - though it was actually my dad who did the vast majority of the childcare.

I still think it's interesting that you almost never see men choosing to do any of this stuff - home education, cooking all meals from scratch, wearing clothes based on what their wives would like...

theworldsmad · 28/07/2024 18:13

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 18:01

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think there's a huge difference between paid employment that comes with a uniform and a contract, and having a "uniform" around your own home because it's what your husband wants.

What if you didn't want to wear "his choice" of clothes anymore? How would he react? What if you decided you wanted to work - would he truly be okay with that?

Obviously you don't have to answer, I'm just curious how it would work in reality if you didn't want to be at home anymore.

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No heck, I'd find it veryy weird if I had to wear a uniform at home. Feels a bit fetish-ish.
My point is to say you have no restrictions on your dress at work is not really true.
I'd argue I have more freedom to wear what I like at home than at work. And i honestly cannot see the problem with knowing my husband prefers me in a dress and then wearing dresses. If you're husband complimented you in a certain outfit, are you wrong for wearing it again, even if it is specifically to please him?
re "his choice of clothes" - i can wear what i want but he does have prefrences. I get that, I won't want him wearing a borat. I wouldn't stop him, but i would def speak to him about it. I wear clothes that he might not love, but generally i prefer to wear something where his eyes lit up when i come into the room. I like hit when he thinks I look beautiful.

It would definitely warrant a conversation if i wanted to return to work full time when the kids were still young. He married me knowing I wanted to be at home. If I said I'd want to work I'm sure he wouldn't like it. He would ask why the sudden 180 on 'children need their mom' and all my other thoughts. Similarly I would not like it if he suddenly became very materialist and said I need to go out and work! I would ask what he swallowed!?