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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ballerina farm - just fell down a rabbit hole

321 replies

Mamabear04 · 28/07/2024 09:59

Just fell down a rabbit hole looking at this Instagram account. Of course it can't be true or surely even close to it? I feel so sorry for her, she seems too tired to even smile most of the time. She prides herself on being a servant to her family but it doesn't look like she enjoys it. Also 8 kids by 34? Anyone from or have a ginormous family - what's your experience of living with so many kids/siblings? Does it look like this? Surely the woman has cleaners and although she "helps out" on the farm, they will have a huge amount of staff no? I don't know why I'm obsessed with this this morning...maybe I'm bored of the Kardashians now!

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sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 14:53

Totally agree with you @Wordysmith.

Behind all the innocent looking TikToks about pretty white women who raise children and cook from scratch, there some really sinister undertones and a lot of these wholesome Christian families have been investigate for child abuse.

Look at Ruby Franke. The Rodrigues family. The Lott family. It's not all big families and home cooking.

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 14:55

DysonSphere · 28/07/2024 14:45

It's a sacrifice with a pretty massive compensation.

She is immensely privileged to have a choice of continuing as a ballerina (which her religious parents helped facilitate, ironically the same upbringing which she is embracing and receiving criticism for) OR marrying an heir to a Airline Magnate, starting a successful business, owning prime acreage in America, and never having to step outside her already paid of self-renovated house to work for strangers.

Oh the sorrow and tears!

I'll shed tears for Hannah the next time my gas bill arrives and I question how I'm going to afford it and whether I can afford to keep renting in the area I live in due to rent increases.

I have been a black single mother facing the dilemma of throwing my badly emotionally attached child in nursery too early. Many mothers of all backgrounds face the same dilemma with a hell of a lot less.

Hannah's rich. Hannah is white. Hannah is blonde. Hannah is beautiful. Hannah has a huge supportive Mormon community and family. Hannah is a land owner. Hannah is popular. Hannah is fecund. Hannah would not end up poor in a divorce. Hannah has it made...STILL Despite not going to Julliard.

Give me those choices.

You seem to want to present her as victim. Why?

You seem to want to present her as victim. Why?

Because she is living in a gilded cage. She has all the financial privilege you could wish for, but that is tied to her marriage. She has no financial independence and all her wishes seem to be second to those of her husband and children. The article I’ve linked to a few times in this thread (as well as sources that other posters have linked to) back this up.

Her situation is very different to yours. However, the only privilege she has is financial and that is tied to her marriage. I doubt she would get much money if she divorced her husband. This is because I think their finances are very skewed in his favour. I think this is partly because he has very ‘traditional’ attitudes towards men and women’s roles - e.g. men earn money and women do not earn money and are caregivers - and because the money they have is his family’s money, as he is the heir to a business.

Wordysmith · 28/07/2024 14:57

Two things can be true, you can be privileged in some ways and also be in an unhealthy or abusive relationship.

Tbh I don’t feel massively sorry for her because someone from this kind of background and who has built a social media following will be alright either way. Although it is sad she gave up her ballerina dream.

But my main objection is the content this woman and others like her are pushing out is extremely harmful and misleading to other women who may not be as privileged as her. It’s normalising what shouldn’t really be normalised.

Many other women may seek to enter into these kind of relationships without realising that for them it’s going to be very different.

I know they don’t have too but I wish they felt some kind of moral responsibility to educate young women on how to secure yourself financially and protect your physical health in this kind of relationship.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:00

Helar · 28/07/2024 14:53

She normally has home births so obviously no epidurals. This baby was 2 weeks overdue, so that’s why she had to go to hospital, was without her husband, presumably induced and needed an epidural.
Her subsequent home births have been easy - “one push” she said. I’m not seeing anything sinister.

Yep, and that's what I (and others) are finding scary.

People don't seem to think there's anything wrong with what's going on here.

Lalgarh · 28/07/2024 15:01

CandidHedgehog · 28/07/2024 13:28

@Treaclewell , ‘Quiverfull’ is a fundie sect (similar to the Duggars) that basically says how many children a woman has should be left up to God. They don’t use birth control of any sort (including natural family planning) and women aren’t allowed to refuse their husbands sex. Add in Quiverfull daughters tend to be married in their teens and you can see why they end up with 20+ children.

Back in the day when I was studying Demography, the yardstick for maximum fertility per woman was the Hutterite communities who would average 16 births from onset of menses to completion of childbearing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites#:~:text=Hutterites%20(German%3A%20Hutterer)%2C,and%20have%20formed%20intentional%20communities.

Hutterites - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites#:~:text=Hutterites%20(German%3A%20Hutterer)%2C,and%20have%20formed%20intentional%20communities.

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:01

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:00

Yep, and that's what I (and others) are finding scary.

People don't seem to think there's anything wrong with what's going on here.

What on Earth is a ‘one-push baby’? I don’t have children yet, so I appreciate perhaps I can’t fully understand anyway. But a ‘one-push baby’ sounds like childbirth is a walk in the park that’s quick and smooth - and even I know it’s not!

LondonFox · 28/07/2024 15:01

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 14:42

At the bottom of this article:

https://www.wellandgood.com/epidural-backlash-tradwife-ballerina-farm/

"Neeleman herself got a taste of a less social media-ready way of laboring. She delivered two of her eight children in the hospital. For her third-youngest's birth, Martha, Neeleman's husband—whom the Sunday Times profile paints as domineering—was not present because of work. Martha was expected to be a large baby. So Neeleman had an epidural. “It was an amazing experience,” Neeleman tells the Sunday Times, in a whisper. “It was kinda great.”

She loved it. But why wasn't she allowed it again, I wonder?

Because she had homebirths.
You cannot have epi during one.

If baby was expected to be large she had induction and pain after induction is not the same as naturally started birth.

I am wondering why so many are piling to make her look like a victim when she is full adult with social media and land empire.
If she decides to get a divorce she would be much better off than any of women tearing her down for her life choices.

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:03

LondonFox · 28/07/2024 15:01

Because she had homebirths.
You cannot have epi during one.

If baby was expected to be large she had induction and pain after induction is not the same as naturally started birth.

I am wondering why so many are piling to make her look like a victim when she is full adult with social media and land empire.
If she decides to get a divorce she would be much better off than any of women tearing her down for her life choices.

I think the problem is that she appears to be very privileged but none of it is really hers - it’s all her husband’s. If she and her husband ever divorced, I think her husband would work quite hard to ensure she didn’t get much money from it.

Mugcake · 28/07/2024 15:04

Oh my god me too! It's awful, I hope she's happy with her life but I can't see how.
The egg apron present was absolutely infuriating!!

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:04

LondonFox · 28/07/2024 15:01

Because she had homebirths.
You cannot have epi during one.

If baby was expected to be large she had induction and pain after induction is not the same as naturally started birth.

I am wondering why so many are piling to make her look like a victim when she is full adult with social media and land empire.
If she decides to get a divorce she would be much better off than any of women tearing her down for her life choices.

Yes, and she had multiple home births because that's what fits with her religion and the whole tradwife "aesthetic" that she pushes on her social media, not because it's necessarily what she wanted or what was best for her/the baby.

I'm not keen to "push her as a victim" - I believe she is a victim. Not all abuse is black eyes and broken bones, women who (on the surface, at least) "have it all" can be victims too.

Helar · 28/07/2024 15:05

I think she’s a very smart and savvy businesswoman who is very artistic and creative, clearly a hugely successful influencer and would get on just fine without her husband if she had to one day. It’s really pretty insulting to her to say she’s nothing without her husband -from what I can see she is the main one starring in and driving their videos and content. It’s a job she can do from home with her children underfoot and from what I gather very lucrative.

Given their religiosity I think it’s highly unlikely they would divorce anyway. They believe they’re sealed for eternity.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:05

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:03

I think the problem is that she appears to be very privileged but none of it is really hers - it’s all her husband’s. If she and her husband ever divorced, I think her husband would work quite hard to ensure she didn’t get much money from it.

It's surface privilege, not genuine privelege.

Yes, she has a lovely looking family of healthy, happy children. She cooks from scratch. She's white, Christian and pretty. But as has been said, it's a guilded cage. It's not really freedom or privilege if it's based on staying in a relationship that doesn't make you happy.

LondonFox · 28/07/2024 15:06

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:01

What on Earth is a ‘one-push baby’? I don’t have children yet, so I appreciate perhaps I can’t fully understand anyway. But a ‘one-push baby’ sounds like childbirth is a walk in the park that’s quick and smooth - and even I know it’s not!

Edited

Somw women are quite lucky that cgild does not go through a long pushing stage but descends and exits. Obviously you have contractions before but baby getting out in one push or after two hours of pushing and tearing is not tge same.
And yeah, as you have more children there is a tendency for your body to expell them more efficiently as you are not tense and bits are a bit more loose.
You can have complication with any baby but generally more you have it will be easier.

DysonSphere · 28/07/2024 15:07

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 14:49

@DysonSphere because I firmly believe she is one.

Pretty, rich, privileged white women can be victims just as much as anyone else.

See I agree in principle. But that's not truly it is it? And you're choosing to wring hands over someone who declares themselves perfectly fine thanks.

The fact is she is Mormon. That already puts her entire family in line for scrutiny by people with preconceived notions and biases about religious women.

Then of course, the core issue: she promotes by default, a stay at home lifestyle, with a lot of kids. Put these three things together and the result MUST BE coercion. She's a victim.

Feminists, particularly white ones lie about supporting women to have choices and focus mostly on the travails of well off women.

Almost every choice for liberal feminists, even prostitution, can be one of 'empowerment' except choosing to be an exclusively SAHM and never in the face of different choice of a career being available. Patriarchy writ large is what it is. And so such women very ironically come under fire by women professing to be part of a philosophy of peak choices for women.

It's like saying you can choose every colour as long as it's red.

The poor woman wanted to describe herself as a feminist but felt she couldn't. Not acceptable enough.

Look I don't entirely disagree that's there's an element of such religions that is inherently patriarchal. But that pretty much applies to most of the big ones.

There's no reason to describe her account as a 'deep dive' as if there's something intrinsically disturbing that means Hannah needs saving. She's living the American dream.

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:07

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:05

It's surface privilege, not genuine privelege.

Yes, she has a lovely looking family of healthy, happy children. She cooks from scratch. She's white, Christian and pretty. But as has been said, it's a guilded cage. It's not really freedom or privilege if it's based on staying in a relationship that doesn't make you happy.

Exactly.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:08

I also find it interesting that everyone is saying "on social media, it looks like X - she's not being forced" but on every other thread, everyone says not to believe social media as it's all made up 😂

Surlyburd · 28/07/2024 15:08

I saw this! Her husband gave her an egg apron despite being amillionnaire and owning an airline, and she had repeatedly asked for tickets to Greece.
They are Mormon I believe, and their tiktoks are very 'on brand' lots of kids, beautiful wife who gave up her career, big farm where they work without staff..

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:09

See I agree in principle. But that's not truly it is it? And you're choosing to wring hands over someone who declares themselves perfectly fine thanks.

Lots of victims of abuse claim they're "fine" and "happy". It doesn't mean shit.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:10

There's no reason to describe her account as a 'deep dive' as if there's something intrinsically disturbing that means Hannah needs saving. She's living the American dream.

The fact that you genuinely believe that is absolutely terrifying to me, it really is.

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:11

DysonSphere · 28/07/2024 15:07

See I agree in principle. But that's not truly it is it? And you're choosing to wring hands over someone who declares themselves perfectly fine thanks.

The fact is she is Mormon. That already puts her entire family in line for scrutiny by people with preconceived notions and biases about religious women.

Then of course, the core issue: she promotes by default, a stay at home lifestyle, with a lot of kids. Put these three things together and the result MUST BE coercion. She's a victim.

Feminists, particularly white ones lie about supporting women to have choices and focus mostly on the travails of well off women.

Almost every choice for liberal feminists, even prostitution, can be one of 'empowerment' except choosing to be an exclusively SAHM and never in the face of different choice of a career being available. Patriarchy writ large is what it is. And so such women very ironically come under fire by women professing to be part of a philosophy of peak choices for women.

It's like saying you can choose every colour as long as it's red.

The poor woman wanted to describe herself as a feminist but felt she couldn't. Not acceptable enough.

Look I don't entirely disagree that's there's an element of such religions that is inherently patriarchal. But that pretty much applies to most of the big ones.

There's no reason to describe her account as a 'deep dive' as if there's something intrinsically disturbing that means Hannah needs saving. She's living the American dream.

She’s not at all living the American dream.

The literal definition of the American dream is the ‘ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved.’

She is not in an equal relationship with her husband. Also, she does not have equal opportunities to him. If she did, she would have been able to pursue her ballet studies and career for as long as she wanted, to get married to him when she wanted, to have children if she wanted and to have pain relief for all her children’s births (as an example). None of these things were available to her.

SecretWitch · 28/07/2024 15:11

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 12:46

I'd look at families like the Rodrigues and their brood of children, or the Collins family. They don't do the traditional "homesteading" but they're a good "opener" into what fundie lifestyles can be like.

A family called the Lotts (who go by AmericanFamilyRoadTrip) are another - they're currently under major scrutiny by CPS as their youngest child is believed to be suffering from medical neglect.

In more "trad" circles there are people like Kelly Havens who strive to emulate this kind of lifestyle,

Kelly Havens so wants to emulate Ballerina farm in her little broken down hovel in the suburbs😂

i was a stay at home mum by choice. It was an agreement between me and my spouse. I took care of the children and home by choice. Some of us do decide to make different life choices but this Woman and her controlling husband give me the shivers.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 28/07/2024 15:13

SecretWitch · 28/07/2024 15:11

Kelly Havens so wants to emulate Ballerina farm in her little broken down hovel in the suburbs😂

i was a stay at home mum by choice. It was an agreement between me and my spouse. I took care of the children and home by choice. Some of us do decide to make different life choices but this Woman and her controlling husband give me the shivers.

Kelly Havens really interests me because she was raised in a pretty normal home - her family isn't Fundie - her dad is a doctor, her mum works, they all dress in jeans etc. and live pretty average, Christian lives.

Yet she cosplays as some kind of Anne of Green Gables character and lives like she's in the 1800's. It's odd.

If you look back on her social media, she used to run, wear jeans and leggings, write poetry and do photography etc. The switch over baffles me - I wonder how much of it is her and how much is her husbands' family.

Helar · 28/07/2024 15:14

Acapulco12 · 28/07/2024 15:01

What on Earth is a ‘one-push baby’? I don’t have children yet, so I appreciate perhaps I can’t fully understand anyway. But a ‘one-push baby’ sounds like childbirth is a walk in the park that’s quick and smooth - and even I know it’s not!

Edited

It’s the foetal ejection reflex. In the final “ pushing” stage of labour. On the films etc you see medicalised births with people yelling and sometimes hours of forced pushing. This is not natural but often happens in the bright, scary, busy-ness of the hospital environment.

In an unmedicalised, natural birth where the woman feels safe and relaxed and private, the baby can instead be delivered very quickly in 1-3 instinctive pushes without any intentional effort by the mother.

Wordysmith · 28/07/2024 15:16

Surely any women with a grain of self-love would ideally like a partner that sees them as equal and encourages them to focus on their dreams and self-fulfilment? I knew my partner was the one for me when he offered to read my manuscripts in a genre that is of no interest to him 😂

How can anyone pretend this is all sunshine and rainbows when her now husband, shortly after meeting inexplicably refused to wait a year or two so this talented woman could pursue her dreams, before getting married just so she could start having babies asap?

There’s other things too but that issue alone is the equivalent of a parade of red flags.

I wonder what would have happened if she said no? My suspicion is he would found another woman asap because men like this see women as breeders/irreplaceable and are very entitled.

ConfusedKoala13 · 28/07/2024 15:16

I find it interesting that I had never heard of this woman until about 2 days ago and now she's all over twitter, IG & now MN.
I feel like a pawn in some marketing machine.....