I would swap with her in an instant

[Cookiecrumblane]

I am a sort of clever woman, financially secure, good at what I do. I have lots of friends and family around me, despite being single.
Today I met a woman through a friend, ten years younger than me. She was upset at losing her job last month, she had tried but made a serious of errors and was eventually sacked.
Even as she cried, she looked beautiful. She told me about her various problems, not being able to pay rent, her debt, her self esteem.
And I thought how much I would love to be that pretty. She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her.
I have never had that. And so what good is education, my job, my success. Because ultimately she'll end up ok. She is more likely to get a job and when she does people will praise what she does much more than they praise people who look like me.
Is that mad? That I would swap with her in an instant, even to be jobless and at risk of losing my flat, just to feel visible?
I'm sure men don't feel this way.

I think everyone likes to feel desired. Even people in long term relationships come on here if they're in a sexless marriage and someone smiles at them to say how validated it made them feel. Then there's the opposite, where people don't feel desired by their partners feel almost worthless, despite all their many other qualities. So put yourself in my shoes, I have never felt desired. Even my ex saw me as reliable, solid, financially able to support us. I've been a best friend, I've been an emotional crutch. But no one has ever fancied

And exactly how much better do you think it is to be desired to the point of objectification?

To be reduced to an object that’s wheeled out to show off to others but expected to remain silent?

And used for gratification, denied the right to refuse or complain and then thrown back into the corner because you aren’t seen as a person - just a ‘pretty thing’

To always wonder if that is door being opened as an act of normal manners or so they can leer at you or brush against you?

To never be able to show pride in your achievements because some arse will dismiss them as ‘just because you are pretty’

And to hold in all your hurt and fears because they are waived away with ‘but you are pretty’

Even being verbally harassed, followed in the street, up to & including sexual assault and rape will always have some added ‘oh lucky you’ (the former) and ‘well look at you, what did you expect’ (the latter)

I’m not reading any more of this thread because it is the epitome of every rape myth and misogynistic comment ever made blaming someone for a quirk of genetics and hand-waving away any and all hard-ships because of, or in spite of, that quirk with a sneery judgemental she deserves everything she gets

I'm not changing myself. I don't want to have straight hair, or a smaller nose or be a size six to compete with a 27 year old, 5"8 white woman with green eyes

Well then, you'll have to change your mindset. Much harder and you cant throw money at it.

I think op wants people to join in the 'yeah ha! Her life is shit and it's going to get worse as she ages! Yeah being pretty isn't that great is it'!

Honestly OP, as someone who has looked OK for periods of life and now resembles Grendel's Granny, don't waste your precious life in envy and bitterness. Don't define your importance by the male gaze, work on your confidence, find your style and do stuff that makes you happy. Life is short and health is a gift not appreciated until its gone so make the most of what you have, now.

There's a lot of truth in what you say, unfortunately. Pretty Privilege is never going to go away. Crack on with your life and career and, if it's important to you to look nicer, treat yourself to a new wardrobe, a gym membership and some beauty treatments. I'm sure none of that is necessary but it might be fun! I am expecting to get pilloried for this, but, no, as bizarre as your question is, YANBU.

Imagine having your head full of so much more interesting things that you don't even give a thought to how you look once you're dressed and have been through your morning grooming routine?

That's much more freeing. Women are taught to value physical appearance above all else and to feel failures when we (invariably) don't conform.

I say to hell with that noise.

I’m considered to be very pretty (even at 51) although it’s only because I’m good with makeup. I’m also clever but haven’t achieved a great deal career-wise…well I don’t have a career, probably because I had undiagnosed autism.

My life is an absolute shambles. I live with my elderly narcissistic mother and feel suicidal a lot of the time. I get a lot of attention from older men and often have nutters following me around. I know they only give me the time of day because of the way I look. What’s the point if you know someone’s only being nice to you because you look good? Even if they’re also attracted to my brain, it’s only because of the face that’s attached to it.

Yeah, I get it op.
I really do.

I don’t know how they do it (well, I mean I do, people are kinder and offer to help pretty women) but pretty women always end up being just fine at the end.

I had many times, so many times, when I’ve been thinking how I would give anything to be a beautiful woman.
It doesn’t matter how they are or what kind of aperson they are, people love them anyway.

This. Absolutely this. 👏🏻

I find it odd that in a thread when people are criticising the patriarchy, they're so quick to be so derogatory and horrible about the ops friend, just because she's pretty!

"She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her."

What the fuck did I just read?

@SerafinasGoose that's how I feel now, after all those years (decades) wasted flapping about appearance. I buy nice clothes, put on my make-up, appear clean and smell nice and then I leave the house and don't think about it again for the rest of the day. I wish I could truly not care, but this seems a reasonable compromise.

OP, I'm not saying looks don't matter, but it's also true you don't have to be a stunner to be socially attractive- socially attractive people tend to be friendly looking, have clean hair and clothes, engage in some obvious self-care (e.g. nice hair, jewellery, interesting bag) and show interest and attention to others. This is possible for pretty much anyone unless they have MH problems that prevent them showering or whatever.

Total nonsense.

Yes more important to be healthy for a long period than attractive.

And I want to add that (as you can see) this topic doesn’t go well over here.

Beauty / ugliness is quite the taboo on MN.

And it’s the ugly women who have to feel sorry for the pretty one’s.
Apperently no one’s life is worse than beautiful woman’s life! 🤣

Thing is, OP isn't wrong. I used to be stick thin and whilst not exactly gorgeous I was relatively good looking with a healthy sized chest and long, light blonde hair.
Then I became seriously ill and had to start taking steroid injections and went from a size 6 to a size 22 and I've sadly stayed there.

I cannot put into words quite how differently people treat me now, genuinely. It's not paranoia, it's not that subtle, it's blatant! Even my family notice it.
I don't think people do it consciously it's just deeply ingrained in our culture. People are naturally drawn to and therefore kinder to people who they deem to be attractive and/or slim and less so to those who aren't.
Same with disabilities and hence why it's taken until the last decade or two for people to be more accepting of disabled people.

Even in the animal kingdom, in litters, packs or groups of animals if one is born disfigured or noticeably different, the others tend to shun the poor disfigured one. Of course this doesn't make it ok for humans to behave like this, just because animals do it, but as a disabled person myself, I'd say it explains that it's a real behaviour that exists and isn't a taught behaviour! That it's not paranoia!

Yes it's very sad that OP has such a dislike of her own body/looks but sadly she's not wrong. This friend of hers will^^ have an easier ride socially. Maybe not circumstantially but definitely socially, 100%

But an ‘easier ride socially’ hasn’t made her able to hold down a job and remain solvent. This woman is crying on the shoulder of a woman she’s just met, so she seems unlikely to be surrounded by loving, concerned friends, or in a supportive relationship, or surely this wouldn’t be happening…?

The fact remains, her response is envy. Envy and resentment. Which she is expressing fulsomely on this thread, along with self-pity.

That's what I'm commenting on.

Some exaggerated fiction probably, I’ve almost got an image of this pretty woman bathed in a golden halo while men swoon, powerless at her feet.

Yes I admit pretty privilege exists, I’ve had it, but it’s actually really tiny in comparison to all the other things you have to deal with in life. Having people smile at you and compliment you can be nice sometimes, sure, but in normal life it doesn’t get you a free pass from real life issues. Pretty might bag you that handsome or rich guy but it won’t keep him, your utility company isn’t going to waive your gas bill because you’re pretty and the bank manager isn’t going to give you a mortgage because of your pretty smile.

Of course it’s nice to be pretty (if my memory serves me lol) I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t, but it’s not a guaranteed passport to an amazing life.

Exactly. Just when is this social advantage going to kick in then because its not happening right now is it???

This woman has no job, is losing her place to live, no partner and no friends by the sound of it. So where exactly is this social advantage? oh yes, silly me, I forgot- she's had a door held open by a random man and one crossed the street for her. How bloody lucky she is!

I am very unattractive, have chronic illnesses, in low paying work and single. I would look at you and feel envy. You have more then you realise.

I wonder if there's something you aren't telling us OP.

Do you just want to complain? Or do you want to be someone that someone fancies?

Because you're saying you don't care, then complaining about not being fancied an awful lot.

Even academic men will race across a room to unpop a cork for a 30 year old blonde woman

This sounds like something that someone would say who had learnt everything they know about people from films

Yes OP, people fancy attractive people. But you don't want to make yourself more attractive, so I guess that's it for you.

Agreed. All the decent men I know probably wouldn't even notice the random 30 year old blonde girl needing a hand with a cork. They'd be too busy focusing on the people they were already interacting with. Or talking to the interesting girl they like.

The fact there is a pretty girl in the room doesn't matter unless she's chucking herself at one of them, which none of them would find that attractive.