I would swap with her in an instant

[Cookiecrumblane]

I am a sort of clever woman, financially secure, good at what I do. I have lots of friends and family around me, despite being single.
Today I met a woman through a friend, ten years younger than me. She was upset at losing her job last month, she had tried but made a serious of errors and was eventually sacked.
Even as she cried, she looked beautiful. She told me about her various problems, not being able to pay rent, her debt, her self esteem.
And I thought how much I would love to be that pretty. She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her.
I have never had that. And so what good is education, my job, my success. Because ultimately she'll end up ok. She is more likely to get a job and when she does people will praise what she does much more than they praise people who look like me.
Is that mad? That I would swap with her in an instant, even to be jobless and at risk of losing my flat, just to feel visible?
I'm sure men don't feel this way.

Well as someone who has assumed the mantle of 'jolly fat person' myself I understand. We often work hard at being more, to compensate for being less, as we see it. It can be exhausting, like a mask we have to put on before we leave the house.

In spite of being told I was pretty many times, I have always struggled with lack of self esteem over my looks and my body in particular, although I am not that overweight in the scheme of things. But being slim has always eluded me and I have often chosen to wallow in self pity at not being perfect. Not turning up to parties at the last minute and making excuses rather than leave the house feeling bad about myself on any given evening. I'm ultra hard on myself. That's the difference between me and her. She seems genuinely at peace with herself. Maybe she's not, but if she's pulling off a great act then it's a convincing one and it's working.

I've spent far too many hours and months and years of my life on self loathing and it's been wasted, pointless energy. I hate looking at photos of myself and always dodge the camera. Then in my fifties I realised that my favourite photos of my favourite people are the ones where they are looking happy, laughing and natural,even if they are not the most flattering photos. I realised that when I'm dead my children won't have many photos of me looking happy and carefree because I am always looking uncomfortable and uptight, worrying about my double chin or dodging the camera altogether. Whereas my sunshine-in-human-form friend posts loads of photos of her just having a fabulous time and doesn't seem to give a shit about whether they are flattering or not, no filters, no carefully chosen poses or angles. She looks like someone just loving her life and not over-thinking it.

I understand she's human and I'm sure she has her days like anyone else where she has pangs of self doubt, or just feels low. I get it. I know she's certainly dealt with plenty of the shit that life throws at all of us sometimes, but she just has a way of not wallowing and always seeing the positive. It's just her approach to life in general. It's a skill. Maybe learned, maybe inate, I don't know. All I know is, it's better than the alternative.

In other words, unless her friend is 'lighting up the room' with her 'relentless positivity' she is just a 'plain, fat woman'. The poster has singled out this particular woman to say this about because she is fat and plan - the poster hasn't demanded that her better-looking colleagues light up the room with their jollity; they can exist as something other than their looks without being the pantomime comic

She mentioned those things because the entire point of the thread is that being attractive = everyone loves you. So, she cited a friend of hers who doesnt conform to typical western standards of "beauty" yet still has everyone wanting to be around her/be with her. It was an entirely appropriate example to make that personality and attitude is what makes someone attractive, not how they superficially look.

She even said in the post that she knows many very superficially attractive people who are dull and boring. She also didnt use the word "just fat and plain" so again, you are projecting here.

There’s always someone who’s holding a better set of cards though isn’t there. Whether it’s looks, health, wealth, brains, fertility. There’s always someone worse off and always someone better off.

I would say being financially stable and housed like the OP is, is one of the best cards you can hold.

I think everyone likes to feel desired. Even people in long term relationships come on here if they're in a sexless marriage and someone smiles at them to say how validated it made them feel. Then there's the opposite, where people don't feel desired by their partners feel almost worthless, despite all their many other qualities. So put yourself in my shoes, I have never felt desired. Even my ex saw me as reliable, solid, financially able to support us. I've been a best friend, I've been an emotional crutch. But no one has ever fancied me.

So many, many times, you’ve applied for a job, not got it, they’ve given it to someone more attractive, and then when it’s not worked out, they’ve called you and given you the job?

Really?

You are ridiculous!!

@Naunet internal promotions- yes

You said you’d swap your financial stability and home to be as pretty but unemployed as your friend. No matter how you dress it up now, that’s nuts.

Then make yourself more physically attractive. It's not difficult these days. Teeth, skin, hair, weight. All can be changed easily with injectables and meds. If you really think it will help.

So put yourself in my shoes, I have never felt desired. Even my ex saw me as reliable, solid, financially able to support us. I've been a best friend, I've been an emotional crutch. But no one has ever fancied me

But how on earth would being served in a bar first or creepy men following you on the street help with this?

It's fine to want to be desired but the examples you've given that apparently incite envy in you are absolutely ridiculous.

Not to derail the thread, but those who've been similarly low in self esteem and particularly obsessed over feeling ugly/plain etc... How did you get out of it? I can't. I've felt ugly my whole life. And now I'm overweight too (size 16ish) and every waking hour is blighted with negative thoughts, disgust with myself, longing to be more attractive. I hold down a skilled job and have kids and am married, and it's exhausting wasting so much time feeling so hateful towards myself. As I sit typing this I'm lifting my chin because I can physically FEEL a double chin and can't bear it. No one is in the room with me for me to be concerned about. It's just what I feel.

Being around beautiful female friends of which I know several is horrible internally even though I love them. I don't wish for them to have anything different I just wish I was attractive too. I get what OP is saying, it's not rational or fair but at this point I feel like being more attractive would so quickly eliminate so much of my misery. That's doesn't mean attractive people have it easier. It means I've decided that would be my panacea. Pretty embarrassing tbh.

But hey, at least she's got lots of mnetters joining in with her diatribe of how shitty a life this woman has and how as soon as her beauty fades her life will be useless!
Lovely!

I think you have been given a hard time on this thread @Cookiecrumblane. You are allowed to feel how you feel. Of course others are free to comment also. It probably seems irrational to many on this thread. I understand having these innermost thoughts that probably don’t make much sense to others. I used to feel like this as a single parent. I had a reasonably good career and life. I think I made a good job of bringing up my child. I still however used to secretly envy the women I knew that were coupled up with a husband. Thinking what the hell has she got that I haven’t ?😂. I once confided in a close friend in a similar situation to me about how I felt. She just said ‘oh those other women probably have gold plated fannies’ which did make me laugh and I realised I was being a bit silly about it all.

Would you really give it all up just to have men drooling all over you? Admittedly she could meet & marry a wealthy man, but she’ll probably always be unhappy for one reason or another. I don’t think you have any idea what it’s like to be her.

Genuinely amazed how many people don't get this feeling at all. Imagine feeling comfortable with how you look? I honestly can't imagine it.

She told you her life is falling apart, and you still think beauty has brought her advantages? I believe the outcome is the proof your theory is wrong

she’ll probably always be unhappy for one reason or another.
Why? How have you worked that one out?!

But this woman isnt comfortable with how she looks- she apparently has very low self esteem - isnt that the entire point?

Lose weight, get your teeth done and get botox and a fab hair cut.

I've lost weight and make sure I get my eyebrows and hair done. I've also had a new tooth to replace one that was a bit dodgy. No botox yet but I wouldn't rule it out

@Wendycoping what if I told you I did all that and it hadn't made any difference. For one, I'm not white and that makes a difference. The world is still very Eurocentric in terms of what they find beautiful. Even in my country, there is a standard which is tall, pale skin, blonde hair, slim, when I am very broad shouldered, overweight, short, dark, hairy, uneven complexion, oily skin, round face, almond eyes. The only people of my race you see are the most beautiful but also the most western looking people.

Do some exercise, go for regular facials, get your hair removed. Start being kinder to yourself.

Sorry but she’s just been sacked and you think this? Messing up so badly you get sacked is quite rare I think, so her beauty obviously hasn’t helped her all that much, has it? Who cares about getting served first or men wanting to walk past you, yes that will get you far!

get your hair removed.

What?

ETA: Sorry, just seen OP's previous post and I get it now! Should have been obvious. I didn't get much sleep last night.

I'm sensing a beauty = stupid, unattractive = clever and sensible life script OP. Where's that come.from?

In fairness, her life is pretty shitty already, despite her good looks, if by ‘shitty’ we mean unemployed, broke, potentially homeless AND (which some people seem to be overlooking), with poor self-esteem. It’s right there in the OP.

That sounds like a very tough situation to me, even if the OP thinks it’s mitigated by men holding doors open for her and serving her promptly at the bar. Which obviously says far more about the OP’s own self-esteem than anything.

Also, this unemployed, distraught woman isn’t even a friend of the OP. It doesn’t sound as if they’d met previously. She was distraught enough to be crying about her life on a stranger’s shoulder. None of this makes her sound in any way enviable, or as though her good looks have improved her life in any important way.