Not trying to be inflammatory but why do people *need* more than two kids?

[ConstantlyFuriosa]

Just that.

I'd just add to that comment - having say 4 children has particular cost implications in terms of house size and cars. Kids can share bedrooms, up to a point, but you need a particular type of vehicle to transport a large family around, so all that needs thinking about before having a big family. It should absolutely not be down to the state to subsidise the decision to have very large families.

If you can pay for them, have as many as you want. If you expect the taxpayer to fund them for anything other than short term (eg unexpected job loss) then no they shouldn't. it is often said that only the very wealthy and the poor have multiple children. The wealthy can afford them and the poor expect the taxpayer to foot the bill.

that is just a staggeringly ignorant thing to post

My jaw is on the floor!

I must admit my 4 adult children are all toothless, smelly, benefit grabbing, rude, anti-social, uneducated, poorly dressed misfits with no social skills at all.

Obviously none of the above is true (and they love being a gang of four.)

There was a viral article in the Sunday Times about the Tiktok influencer BallerinaFarm who is a Mormon wife to 8 kids and married to an airline heir. There were a shocking number of responses from children who grew up on big families saying that the only way the dynamic worked was older siblings, especially the oldest daughter, being forced to take care of the younger ones.

Kids from big families simply cannot have all of their physical and emotional needs met and have a greater chance of growing up with long term damage. (Personally, I would say a big family starts from 4 or 5 kids). The older kids end up parentified and the younger ones are being taken care of by unqualified carers. One older sibling said he fed his newborn brother mashed up bananas because he had no idea what babies were supposed to eat. Another user who was the oldest sister said she started doing chores and laundry from 6 years old to compensate for their mother who was permanently exhausted and depressed.

Big families are usually only their to fulfil some societal or religious ideal and to look good from the outside. Behind closed doors, it's usually a shitshow.

This was why my H suffered as one of 5 - 4 boys in one bedroom, nowhere to study, bullied by oldest brother, his few possessions trashed by the youngest. I agree that too much time alone in a bedroom is bad, but so is overcrowding.

Right there with you! That post was just unreal

I'm one of five and we grew up in poverty in the 70's and 80's. My mother made it very clear to everyone that she didn't want to get a job so kept having kids instead. She lost interest after the baby stage with all of us, particularly her two eldest - my sister and I. We were mostly brought up by our grandparents, who were then too old to do the same for the younger three.

My dad just went along with it because it made her happy and life was easier for everyone if she was happy 🤷‍♀️

Both my sister and I (we think,of ourselves as a family of two and don't have contact with the other three) made the connection at a young age that lots of children = poverty so we both decided to opt,out of that and not have children. We are both married/engaged and have wonderful, fulfilling lives with fantastic jobs that help,society more than our mother ever did (im a doctor ans she's a human rights lawyer). Our siblings are mostly living around the same area where we grew up and our brother has several children with several women because he's a total,knob. I very much doubt he pays any maintenance to any of them as he does cash in hand jobs. Our sisters married young, had lots of kids 4 for one and 6 for another.

I don't judge people who choose to have large families. I judge my mother and my siblings but that's my prerogative. People can have the number of children they want and it's not the child's fault that bad decisions were made which resulted in their existence, so why should we punish that child and reduce their opportunities in life just to make a point?

I have four.

I didn't 'need' that many. I wanted them.

HTH

Interesting. I have 3. The oldest 2 are at an independent school. Both are extremely academic and also county champions in their respective sports. Youngest is autistic and at a specialist school. He attends regular speech therapy and attends an SEN group for his hobby. He also has 1:1 swimming lessons.
They’ve all been to the dentist every 6 months since they got their first tooth. They all have their own room. Their clothing is a mixture of brand new and some good quality second hand items (what’s wrong with second hand clothes?). DH and I ensure we have quality 1:1 time with all of our children. We’ve just got back from a lovely holiday in Valencia. Bedding washed weekly. Not sure what they’re lacking, but I’m sure you’ll tell me that I’m failing them somehow!

I'm pregnant with my second but laughing at the thought because someone has 3 kids they won't be taught how to wash or brush their teeth. Can't say I've noticed this from any 3 child families I know.

Absolute bollocks. You just know bad parents.

I have four children.

All have good teeth and good health
All well educated
All regularly complimented on their manners and behaviour
No additional needs to think about
Yes, they have to share bedrooms but they don't mind and sharing bedrooms is pretty normal
They all have lovely clothes and well fitted shoes
All have one on one time with both parents
We both work
No empty voids here
Eat well

The post about dental hygiene is unreal. I have 3 who are all well looked after but my friend has one child whose teeth are rotten, it’s nothing to do with how many kids someone has ffs

Plus some people have bad teeth!

"Not trying to be inflammatory" 😁10/10 on that front

I have 4 and a career thanks

Nobody needs any children. It’s absolutely bonkers that people are claiming those who have 3+ children drifeted there through sheer boredom, are stealing their futures by mapping out their lives to be future carers, can’t get them to wash, clean their teeth, change their beds and buy shoes, can’t spend time with them or help them with homework, and either have to be on the breadline or mega wealthy and the children are raised by nannies and schools, but one less child - the “needed” 2 children - are all normal middle income families who wouldn’t dream of making their dc share a room or wear hand me downs or claim benefits or use nannies or private schools to “raise their kids for them”. As an aside I didn’t know that if you were and only child or one of 2 then you were off the hook in terms of doing anything for your elderly parents. I’m one of 4, but my mother always was a devious bugger. I guess I will continue to visit.

I have 4. I don’t “need” them. I want them - all of them. I have a successful career (full time nhs band 7 clinical role with leadership and educational responsibilities - not a brain surgeon or stock market trader but a perfectly decent job). I’ve never used a nanny or private school or claimed benefits (used to get cb when it was universal but don’t now). They all have their own room but have all shared through choice at various points. They all get new shoes. No fillings (4 sets of braces) but we have had to get private dental as we are in a dental desert. They strip their own beds and make them up and really are old enough (14+) to put a wash on anyway, even if they were only children. They can all cook. They have all (so far) done well academically although one has needed loads of extra support (including speech therapy - not sure why anyone would think he couldn’t have this as part of a bigger family) as he had significant developmental delay as well as some health needs but is doing incredibly well. All have done several extra curriculars including 2 in sports at county level. 2 are now at (good) universities.
I did take 7 full years out to be a sahm. I don’t think it was a bad thing to do and, although it was difficult initially to get my career back, it was certainly possible. I was never bored or lonely as a sahm, I really enjoyed it, and I finished my masters pt in that period and some bank work and helped grow DHs business. I will still have 40 years of full time work when I get to 68 (will go pt earlier if poss) - 7 years doing something different is no big deal. My dh is self employed and earned enough to support us when I was a sahm (plus I did have some income and we deliberately moved to a cheap area and aren’t big spenders anyway).
Raising my children has been the biggest pleasure and privilege of my life. It’s really nothing to do with me if other people can’t get more than 2 dc to brush their teeth and are maxed out after stripping 2 beds. I can - I can do lots of things really quite well. You can be only responsible for yourself and not brush your teeth properly or change your bed. Not entirely sure whats wrong with second hand clothes. The biggest Vinted Queen I know has no dc at all.

It's about wanting not needing. Same for any number of kids.

Really odd post, OP.

Of course it’s racism if it disproportionately negatively affects certain groups of people

People find themselves ‘needing’ all sorts of things when someone else is paying for it.

The hysterical shrieking about two child benefit cap falls in the same category. Calling it draconian. No one is stopping you from having kids. Just don’t expect others to pay for your life choices.

what a burn...

Why the assumption that the jump from 2 to 3 must put financial strain on, and not the jump from 1 to 2?
There are many many people who can quite comfortably afford 3 kids - or more - without compromising on anything.

I was just thinking I ought to tell my team of 45 that I don’t have a career. They’ll be pleased to hear that they don’t have to turn up to work on Monday morning!