My dh has been messaging a colleague. Please can I have some practical and moral support

[PleaseVipersHelpMe]

NC but been here forever. Not really sure why as he would recognise the whole thing in an instant but I need the help and I’d rather he didn’t know. Please can I ask for some support?

I’m on holiday and finally plucked to the courage to ask my dh to let me see his phone. Told him it’s because I was feeling jealous of this woman (true). He let me, but obviously didn’t realise that he has to delete his deleted messages from the recently deleted file and I found quite a lot but only up till about 3 months ago, nothing before. Him telling her that he misses her. Texting when he was away telling me how much he misses me. Telling her that she’s one of the greatest people he has ever met. That he wants her in his life. Then arranging to pick her up from her house on his mid-life crisis car that i stupidly encouraged him to treat himself to. I feel so fucking stupid.

I took screenshots of everything and send them to myself but he’s insisting that nothing happened, that she was just his friend and he’s crossed the line but no affair. I haven’t found anything in emails or what’s app either. Is there anywhere else I can check without alerting him. I have full access to bank accounts and nothing untoward there so far but we don’t have online banking for one account (I can check that when I get home).

I feel so betrayed but the fact that he’s lying to me is worse. He’s treating me like an idiot. He insinuated in the texts that he was going to get her a company car but is saying he hasn’t actually done it. Funnily enough emails seem to be missing re this. He’s clearly been deleting calls from his call log but I don’t know whew do look to find them and I’m pretty sure they will be all gone now if not before. I know he’s lying is there anywhere I can look to find evidence of this? He won’t let me have the phone without him being there now.

I know it won’t make me feel better but it will make me feel like I’ve outsmarted him a bit and I wave him to feel as on edge as I do. I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach and I’m trying to be normal for the kids but I’ve just been sick. I’m supposed to go out for fucking dinner with them all now and be normal. I‘m trying so hard to not upset the kids, they deserve better. This is horrendous. I’ve honestly told so many women on here what to do in this situation but I can’t believe this has happened to me. How could he do this. Any why does he think that shagging her is worse than lying to me? Thanks in advance for any help, and for reading ny ridiculous essay. I will respond to and replies as and when I can after dinner.

So sorry this is happening to you. You seem quite level headed and full of love. I think no kneejerk reactions from you just yet!!! You are hurting and probably in a state of shock.
Time and space is what is needed when you get back home before any big decisions are taken.

Ending 24years of a mutually loving relationship needs careful consideration
Much love to you, I can feel your pain through your words and am tearing up a bit. Sending you ❤️ and strength.
Keep us posted 💐 x

This has just made me cry again. I’m trying so hard to keep it together but feel like a complete wreck to be honest. Thank you so much for your kind words.

Another one making me cry! Thank you for your very measured response and kind words. I agree I should try not to rush into anything just yet.

So sorry your going through this OP but you are handling it well. Don't make any decisions yet what i would say is she cannot continue to work for your husband if you are to find a way forward (don't feel sorry for her she never gave you that curtesy when she was flirting with your husband) Sending a hug you've been put in a difficult position. Also what are his actions saying how remorseful is he? Is he researching online/booking the counselling sessions what else is he doing to try to repair this mess ?

There are generally two things which kill a relationship.

1. Realising that you do not matter to him as much as you thought you did.

2. Never ever being able to fully trust again

Everything has changed.

The fact he deleted the messages shows his intent was not good.

This is word for word what happened to me too. We’d only been married 6 months when it started and we have a toddler. These people never change I’m so sorry. 😢

I agree with this, although I am not sure I’m qualified to comment !!! if he’s sorry and you want to try and work past his betrayal, the ow has to go. She needs to work elsewhere. I’m assuming it’s his own company?? So he can’t leave? If not. He leaves! That is the consequences of his behavior.
Im in a similar situation to you however much less betraying messages and 99 % from her.
im struggling months on. It’s not easy.

Thank you for your advice and kind words.

Agree about ow at work, I don’t think I could cope with knowing they still speak, but I do think it should be fair. He has said that he no longer wants her there and will find a way to move her out without it being too damaging to her. What that entails he can’t say quite yet, but I do believe him. I think now that he realises how cringeworthy his behaviour has been he won’t want any reminders of it.

She clearly didn’t think about me at all when talking to dh and to be honest that hurts. I can see from the messages that she very clearly took the decision to get what she could out of the situation. All of the talk about the cars was initiated by her, although she was obviously only felt emboldened to do this because of dh’s behaviour. Part of me can’t blame her but then another part of me thinks that the sort of person who would betray another woman for a new car isn’t really worth my pity.

Dh is extremely remorseful. He has arranged for a colleague to retrieve the vehicle she has now and cancelled the new one. He has already looked into marriage counselling and been asking about my availability to book for as soon as we get back. And he looks thoroughly ashamed of himself. But I’m still not sure how this will go as I can’t shake the anger. I’ve just woken up again absolutely furious and need to go and do something to shake it off. don’t know when this feeling will end.

Very true.

Ive actually said to dh that even if it was only flirting and an ego boost etc, that was clearly more important to him at that time than our relationship. I’m not sure how I could ever trust him again.

Agreed. And the fact he didn’t tell me he was going to pick her up. As I said to him if he’d said ‘Oh I’m off to pick X up today to drop her here’ I wouldn’t have thought anything of it. He lied because he didn’t want me to know and be didn’t want me to know because there was some form of intent.

The Dickhead Playbook strikes again. I’m so sorry you went through this too.

She is definitely leaving, he has made that clear. I just wish there was more of a consequence for him as he is most a fault.

He says he is sorry and is doing all of the right things. I’d like to try again as I wouldn’t want to lose 24 years over a stupid mid-life crisis. But then I just feel so betrayed and angry and I’m not sure that I’m prepared to do the work to trust him again - because it will involve so much effort from me - when this is all his fault in the first place. He’s such a stupid fucker.

I’m sorry this happened to you too and I wish you lots of luck in getting through it. I hope your dp knows how lucky he is that you’ve given him another chance.

OP, don't be hasty

I think counselling is a good idea.

Human nature can lead to wanting an ego boost. He got caught up in it.

He needs to understand in therapy, that you're very hurt by this and need some time.

Try and enjoy the holiday.

It's hard when the trust is broken, but it's on him to try and earn your trust back.

A lot of people seem insistent on telling the kids. I wouldn't rush to do that. It's not to protect him..it's them. You need to know what you decide first. There are ways to do it and it doesn't and shouldn't be about ruining their relationship with him, or trying to shame him.

He messed up big time. He has a lot of grovelling to do.

He has to know this could be potentially marriage ending, even if you've decided to work on it.

Take as long as you need.
Make him suffer a bit
Know your worth.
Do what's best for YOU.

I’m now crying again. Thank you for your kind words of support.

I had already made the decision that the kids don’t need to know until much further down the line if we decide to separate. As you said, it isn’t about him it’s about them and they don’t need to know the in’s and out’s unless absolutely necessary. I still think I need him to move out for a while so I can think but there are options. We could say that he needs to spend more time at work so is staying close by and as it’s the holidays ds can drive himself and his dsister across to visit as much as they want.

I suppose I don’t feel that he’s grovelling enough at the moment. Yes he’s saying and doing all the right things but it feels a bit as though he just wants me to shut up about it. I think he thinks that I’m just making digs all the time (which I can’t deny, I have done at times). But it’s still so raw and there is so much I need to understand and ask. I’m not trying to hurt him or make him keep going over how stupid he’s been as he seems to think. I just want to get my head around it all.

I can’t thank everyone on this thread enough for all the words of advice and support and sometimes brutal honesty. It’s helped me so much to have a space to talk this out, even though most of it is my incoherent sleep deprived ramblings.

If he's going to try and save his marriage then put him on probation.

Since you know his passwords to his accounts create your own secret account and get all his emails sent to your new account. If you don't know how to do this ask at your local computer shop or one of those training centres. That way, you have access to them. Or simply open it up on a private screen.

He may or may not break up with her or he may simply replace her. Even if you did upset him, it's not a good response to look for someone else to shag.

Build your case, OP, and see which way the wind blows. ATM he's given up any trust you may have owed him.

I have just read the thread OP and my goodness you are amazing.
I agree with not telling your dd's right now, they do not need to know that men, husbands and fathers, are capable of such behaviour just yet at their ages. It would affect every relationship they ever have from this point on. Especially if you are considering staying with him, I think that would do more harm than good.
I also think if your marriage stands a chance, the OW needs to go. She just does. Is it fair? No, but she knew the risks and decided it was worth it anyway. If her and your dh worked together he would need to leave but as he owns the business that's not possible. They cannot continue to work together.
Above all else, look after yourself. You have had a massive shock and your body will be reeling. As hard as it is, eat well, drink plenty and rest as much as possible.
Good luck with everything.

Thank you this is good advice.

Thanks so much for this. You are right, she does have to go. I couldn’t live with knowing he still sees or speaks to her at work, I will just try and ensure that it’s fair to her.

The massive shock is something that is still a huge issue for me. I can barely eat or sleep - although I’m trying to force food down so the kids don’t worry. I’ve got a constant knot in my stomach and feel so shaky all the time. On the plus side, I’ve lost 12lbs since Monday. Isn’t it strange how you can look the best you have in years but feel like utter horse shit at the same time?

I am so sympathetic to you. I work in HR. I’m guessing that they don’t have an in house HR team so I strongly advise you that your husband needs to get legal advice from an employment lawyer before attempting to persuade OW to leave his company. On a practical level if she says no she could well claim sex discrimination, sexual harassment, and if she says yes she could still claim both of these as well as constructive dismissal.

From her point of view, one minute she was getting a fancy car and the next she’s figuring out where the mortgage is coming from. I’ve investigated several similar grievances, some of which only avoided tribunal due to settling out of court, and even those women who pursued their bosses always claimed that there was an imbalance of power. Brace yourself as this is likely to be very expensive. We always settled out of court because even when the employee was the instigator it’s not worth the risk of being found in the wrong at tribunal, or even if cleared it’s not worth the reputational damage.

I genuinely hope she goes quietly but you need to prepare yourself that she won’t. 💐

You are not responsible for trying to be fair to her @PleaseVipersHelpMe Let your DH do what he needs to do. If anything negative comes from how he deals with it then hopefully he will actually learn a lesson. His actions have consequences. It is hardwired into women to fix everything but this is his problem to fix. Do not waste another minute thinking about what's fair to her or him for that matter.
I read a thread very recently by a poster who had pointed out to her DH, who was having an EA I believe, that his younger OW would be wanting to start a family so he would be knee deep in nappies again and he hadn't enjoyed it the first time round, while she would be enjoying her independence. That shook him up somewhat and would you believe he came to his senses. You've mentioned similar on this thread. Might be worth pointing this out to him, it's all very well him striking up 'friendships' with younger women but they will nearly always expect the full monty. Marriage, kids etc.
As for your health just do what you can, eat little and often even if it's just a slice of toast, piece of fruit or chocolate! Have a hot bath before bed with some lavender oil in, see if that relaxes you. Go to bed listening to an interesting podcast to drown out the thoughts. Just practise self care even if it feels like climbing a mountain. Agree about the weightless, it's bloody typical!
Don't spend all of your energy making sure he's ok, fight that instinct and concentrate on you and staying well for yourself and your dd's.

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging makes some really good points and I think your husband is in on thin ice thinking he can just get rid of her. Whilst I agree the OW didn't have any empathy for you and probably deserves any consequences, equally why should she be the only one to take the rap. So your husband offers to do marriage counselling, of course he does, anything to scrabble around and fix this. Maybe he should have thought about counselling BEFORE he tried it on with a junior employee. He's using the age old male excuse of the wife being partly to blame for him looking elsewhere and if everything had been rosy in your relationship he wouldn't have persued it. Really? Don't fall for that crap.

Firstly please stop trying to be “fair” to other woman she was not thinking about being “fair” to you! She has to go as soon as he goes back to work or your marriage will have no hope.

I read once that emotional affairs can happen for a multitude of reasons but they’re all entrenched in selfishness and entitlement. So he has to understand why he gave himself permission to act this way if your marriage if it to survive. Please get him to sign up to the website “surviving infidelity “ as the betrayer spouse it will help him understand about the impact of his “emotional affair “

Men can be pathetic- I kind of believe his middle age crisis excuse he was getting his ego boosted and validation and think he probably didn’t fancy her she just made herself available and was willing to stroke his weak pathetic ego. Men can be really stupid as you’ve found out but he needs to see the “type” of man he actually is verses the type of man he believed himself to be. Then he has to want to change, to be the kind of person you need not a cheating ass with poor boundaries that leads to lapses in judgement. Or it maybe a power thing with him having a woman making him feel powerful/showing off/being the big man/ believing he still able to pull women etc or it could be he just likes the thrill of the chase. But none of these “excuses” are acceptable excuses just things for him to delve into to find out why he did what he did and realise the “type” of man he actually is/has become. Counselling on his own would help this as would above mentioned website but he will have to do the hard work and really be honest with himself. Maybe let him see this thread!

For yourself What you need to establish first is his commitment and remorse because if that is not there there then you don’t have any hope of reconciliation if that’s what you want

I think reconciliation at its heart is about how much the cheat WANTS to repair, how much they WANT and are DRIVEN to be and do better and know why they felt compelled to do what they did. You as a betrayed can not heal unless you have a partner who is willing to bend over backwards to help you feel safe again . But this goes hand in hand with some grace and empathy from your husband. He must work out ‘why’ he thought it was ok to behave how he did and that should never be directed at you or the marriage but at himself

Trust can be rebuild but it takes consistent acts, being where he say he’s going to be, happily showing their phones etc. with time the need for that will diminish.

There are different stages of affair recovery they say its like grief You will be forever changed by his emotional affair so don’t be hard on yourself about being angry it’s normal You will jump from anger, sadness, hurt resentment etc but If you want to stay married then that means giving your husband a second chance but you both have to realise it will be a very very long and tough process. I will add that you are at the start of your healing process. It can take up to 5 years he needs to know this too and not try to sweep under the rug. The website helps him with this

Your husband should also get a copy of the book ‘how to help my spouse heal from my affair’ also Read ‘not just friends’ by Shirley Glass to understand motivations.

He also has to understand that you can leave this reconciliation at any point, after all he had broken the marriage not you. You absolutely don’t have to stay, a decision to reconcile is a decision to try ‘at the moment’. Time will tell if he has it in him to be a safe partner and you someone who can, not forgive (hate the idea we have to forgive the unforgiveable), but accept and move forward from what has happened within your marriage.

I agree with all of this and have said as much. We spoke again last night and I could see that it had finally sunk in that she could do some real damage if she chose. I asked him if he hadn’t thought about this in the first place and he said no because he wasn’t intending for it to go any further. He’s been very stupid indeed.

He is going to seek advice. My feeling is that it’s safest to do nothing initially and see how the land lies but if I’m honest I don’t want him to do this. I need her out of there for my own peace of mind and it’s up to him to figure out how to make that happen. If it does prove to be costly he only has himself to blame and I think it might not be the worst thing for him to take some sort of hit.

Edited to say thank you for the excellent industry advice.

You are quite right. None of this is my problem and it’s up to him to sort it out. I probably shouldn’t but I do feel a tiny amount of responsibility to her as I wouldn’t want to see any woman shafted. However I’ve been very careful to avoid insisting that she has to go so all of that is coming from dh. If he makes a mistake then it’s his responsibility to sort.

I am trying to look after myself. I had a decent day yesterday. The knot left me for a while and I slept. I spoke to dh about how I didn’t feel he was making enough effort and he apologised and said he was afraid to as whenever he’d tried to compliment me or say something nice since all of this happened he could see the pain in my face and he knew I was thinking of what he’d said to her and he couldn’t bear knowing how much he had hurt me. That’s the first thing he’s said that’s made me feel that he is taking some sort of responsibility. It helped a little.

I actually have some lavender oil as dd sometimes has a couple of drops on her pillow so I will try it in a bath tonight. I will also let go of trying to help him solve all of this. He caused it so it’s up to him to make it right. Thank you for the advice it’s really helped.