My dh has been messaging a colleague. Please can I have some practical and moral support

[PleaseVipersHelpMe]

NC but been here forever. Not really sure why as he would recognise the whole thing in an instant but I need the help and I’d rather he didn’t know. Please can I ask for some support?

I’m on holiday and finally plucked to the courage to ask my dh to let me see his phone. Told him it’s because I was feeling jealous of this woman (true). He let me, but obviously didn’t realise that he has to delete his deleted messages from the recently deleted file and I found quite a lot but only up till about 3 months ago, nothing before. Him telling her that he misses her. Texting when he was away telling me how much he misses me. Telling her that she’s one of the greatest people he has ever met. That he wants her in his life. Then arranging to pick her up from her house on his mid-life crisis car that i stupidly encouraged him to treat himself to. I feel so fucking stupid.

I took screenshots of everything and send them to myself but he’s insisting that nothing happened, that she was just his friend and he’s crossed the line but no affair. I haven’t found anything in emails or what’s app either. Is there anywhere else I can check without alerting him. I have full access to bank accounts and nothing untoward there so far but we don’t have online banking for one account (I can check that when I get home).

I feel so betrayed but the fact that he’s lying to me is worse. He’s treating me like an idiot. He insinuated in the texts that he was going to get her a company car but is saying he hasn’t actually done it. Funnily enough emails seem to be missing re this. He’s clearly been deleting calls from his call log but I don’t know whew do look to find them and I’m pretty sure they will be all gone now if not before. I know he’s lying is there anywhere I can look to find evidence of this? He won’t let me have the phone without him being there now.

I know it won’t make me feel better but it will make me feel like I’ve outsmarted him a bit and I wave him to feel as on edge as I do. I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach and I’m trying to be normal for the kids but I’ve just been sick. I’m supposed to go out for fucking dinner with them all now and be normal. I‘m trying so hard to not upset the kids, they deserve better. This is horrendous. I’ve honestly told so many women on here what to do in this situation but I can’t believe this has happened to me. How could he do this. Any why does he think that shagging her is worse than lying to me? Thanks in advance for any help, and for reading ny ridiculous essay. I will respond to and replies as and when I can after dinner.

Agree with every word of this, thank you.

Thank you for such a detailed post, you have given me so much to work through here. A lot of the points about the type of man he is really resonate with me too.

Strangely enough, I’m almost starting to believe the ego stuff too. He seemed so bewildered that any of this could come back to bite him because in his head nothing was ever going to happen. Obviously I’ve told him how ridiculous that is but it seems to make sense that he could overstep so easily without fear of the consequences when he is genuinely usually such a sensible man. It doesn’t make it any better though. He might not fancy someone else but he’s demonstrated values that are abhorrent to me. It won’t be easy to respect him again after this. I have always, always felt that he is a good man of strong character but this has made me question this. I only want the man I thought he was and he will have to work very hard to show me that he is still this man rather than a weak, pathetic substitute.

In fairness he has had no hesitation in dropping her like a hot potato. I’m still regularly checking his device and there has been nothing further. He’s mainly with us or the dc all of the time so I know he can’t be ringing her. And he seems determined to try and make this right even at cost to himself - now that he’s finally realised that there may actually be a cost. He’s even said that he’s getting rid of the flash car or ‘scrubber magnet’ as I’ve taken to calling it. I know it’s not very feminist but I’m not sorry.

Part of me wonders if the car is part of the issue. I encouraged him to treat himself but I’m just not that interested and I think I’m the only person in his life who wasn’t impressed by it. I wonder if that hurt his ego a little. I didn’t mean to, it’s just not my thing but perhaps something to think about. I don’t ever want to see the stupid thing again so I’m glad he suggested getting rid without prompting. I think this is another reminder of how badly he has behaved.

Thsbk you for the signpost to the website and books. I will suggest that we both get stuck into those when we get back. He’s going to try and get us an appointment with the therapist when we get back too which I honestly can’t wait for. I so need to get my feelings out in a healthy way rather than just boiling with uncontrollable rage,

I am a bit late to the party here @PleaseVipersHelpMe but I genuinely believe that he needs to get off his arse and PROVE to you the at he values you and your marriage. He should work with effort and imagination because he wants to and needs to - because YOU inspire him, not because you tell him he needs to. He’s just a sackful of infinite excuses for poor performance isn’t he?
I think you need to start writing performance reviews for him as a husband.
I also think at the very least he should be getting you a new bloody car.

I agree he does. I’ve told him that I need to feel like I am his priority which I haven’t felt for a very long time as we have been so busy and distracted with life. He has been trying. It will take a very determined effort over a very long time to make me feel secure in our relationship again. He has said that he feels terrible for letting things get this far. That he loves me and never intended to hurt me. That if he didn’t love me and wasn’t determined to make this up to me he would leave. Only time will tell if he is telling the truth. I do like the idea of the performance reviews though!

To be honest, I already have a decent car. A much nicer one than she was looking to get once she returned the flash loan. We started out with very little but we have built a secure financial foundation together over the past 24 years. What I really need is for him to prove himself emotionally. I only want to continue if I get the man I married back. Not the man who thinks charming a woman 10 years younger by buying her stuff is in any way acceptable behaviour. I don’t want that man.

Thank you for advice,

"Part of me wonders if the car is part of the issue. I encouraged him to treat himself but I’m just not that interested and I think I’m the only person in his life who wasn’t impressed by it. I wonder if that hurt his ego a little."

Stop blaming yourself! Seriously you need to get even madder if you are still thinking this is partly down to you. It's not, it's all on him. Don't let him make you doubt your loyalty to the marriage.
Re counselling I think it's a good idea for you both so that someone else can help you see it's his behaviour that is at fault. Whether it helps you continue in your marriage is another thing. Personally I couldn't get passed infidelity, whether physical or emotional/with intent. I also know from experience that when you lose respect for your partner, for whatever reason, it's downhill from there. Long marriages are hard to walk away from, but I feel it's worse to stay in an unhappy one. I hope you get some resolution in therapy, but bear in mind he may just say what you want to hear to keep the marriage together.
Re his comment about leaving if he didn't love you, remember men very rarely leave, even in unhappy marriages. They have affairs instead. Women are generally the ones that behave honestly and call an end to the marriage. It's a matter of pride for men and they worry how they will be perceived by the world/fellow men if their behaviour has led to their wife wanting a divorce. That's a failure in their eyes, but it's about them and their pride, it's not about you. If it was about you, he wouldn't have tried it on with ow.
Try to stay strong and make the best decision for you, stop worrying about everyone else 💐

In absolute fairness dh hasn’t said this, it’s just more of my random musings. I suppose I’m just looking for reasons where perhaps there aren’t any. I definitely blame him!

Thank you, you are right. I have to think about myself first in all of this. Hopefully the counselling helps me to get my head straight.

Oh, and please be assured I am very angry - almost too much so. It almost bursts out of me when I’m least expecting it. To be honest I don’t enjoy feeling like that. I’m not usually an angry person but I do feel that I have needed it to get through this. Anger is the only thing that has kept me going at times.

Agree with not blaming yourself @PleaseVipersHelpMe but actually I don’t think you are, you are too strong for that….any woman who in the middle of a massive crisis can muster up the word “emboldened” is a legend 😊

This has just given me a much needed laugh. Thank you.

Sorry to post again but I really just need to vent at the minute. So I was on the Surviving Infidelity site last night (thank you @Freeme31) and got some great insight. One of the things it said is that there are two types of ‘wayward spouse’.

• Type one is not really remorseful. They want to stay married to you for their own reasons: maybe financial, maybe help with child care, maybe you fit like a comfortable old shoe. But they really don't want anything to change. This type one spouse probably will forget what they've done - in fact, they'd prefer to forget - if you don't keep bringing it up. So they make it pretty uncomfortable for you to talk about the A. They'll start a fight if you bring it up. Or they'll storm out of the house "for some peace and quiet". The Type one spouse is not in reconciliation with you.
• Type two spouses are very sorry for their actions. They will do anything, ANYTHING, to help you heal. The hurt in your eyes on D-Day cut into their heart like a knife. They will NEVER forget what they did, and talk or no talk they will wear the scarlet A on their soul forever.

At the minute dh is behaving more like a type one. He would far rather we didn’t go over things again. He is allowing me to speak but I don’t think he really accepts what he has done. He isn’t eye-rolling but he may as well be. He actually said that he thinks that I’m fixating too much on some things but that he understands why I am.

So this morning I decided to call him on it. I’ve told him that I don’t think he’s trying hard enough to show me that he’s sorry or that he feels remorse. I said that I don’t feel loved or cherished and I asked him what he had done this week that might make me feel like that. He said that everything he had done this week had been for me. He’d sorted counselling, been recruiting to replace the woman etc. I told him that none of those things are for me, they are simply actions to resolve a problem that he caused. I then asked him what he had done for me that took the same amount of effort as picking someone up from their home over an hour out of the way and taking them back to work to collect a car. It may have been below the belt but that’s how I feel.

He asked me what I wanted him to do and I said that I shouldn’t need to tell him. If he wanted me to know that he’s sorry and really loves me I would. That I don’t want to have to prompt this it needs to come from him. That it very much seems that he is staying with me because it is the easiest thing and I will not be his easy option. He said that this isn’t easy and I said it is far easier than divorce, selling the house, splitting assets, telling the kids etc. He then mentioned a nice night we had together and I said that was just a normal occurrence, it didn’t take any effort and was low cost. He then said ‘So you want money?’. Fucking idiot. I’m not her.

He then started to bring up issues in our marriage and said that I’d made him feel bad if the last 20 years. That really hurt if I’m honest but it compounded exactly what I’m saying. I replied that I’m sorry if our marriage hasn’t been perfect (and he’s right, I have made mistakes), but I have been in the same marriage and didn’t choose to invest in another person. I’ve actually had an ex reach out only a few months ago to talk but I ignored and when he didn’t go away I deleted and blocked and dh knows this. That he could at any point have told me that he was unhappy and suggested marriage counselling and I would have been ready and willing to participate but instead he chose easy validation from some bloody cheap scrubber. I said that I may be to blame for some of the issues in our marriage but I am not in any way to blame for this. That’s all on him and his choices.

I also told him that he has embarrassed me. He’s made it seem to her like I don’t matter to him. He made me look small. And worst of all he did it on purpose. That he was desperately to impress her with his ridiculous bragging. That I didn’t like the person he was in those messages and if thar is truly him then I don’t want to move on. I got everything out.

I feel slightly better but I think it’s likely done now which is heartbreaking. I’m really glad I said my piece though. I’ve been tiptoeing around trying to to seem like I’m not in his words constantly ‘kicking him’. But I’ve told him today that he’s got to accept that how I’m behaving is normal, this will take years and will take far more work that he is expecting. If he’s not willing to put that in then he needs to fuck off now because I will not accept lip service. I need to see consistent commitment and to be honest I don’t think he has the staying power for it.

Firstly, bloody well done for articulating exactly how you feel. Secondly, he is still suffering with cognitive dissonance. He had been telling himself for MONTHS that what he is doing is “not that bad” or “just a flirtation” or whatever other bullshit mental gymnastics he has had to do to justify his shitty behaviour. On some level he KNEW what he was doing was utterly fucking dreadful so he used all his powers of justification to make it ok to himself. He now has to dismantle that thinking and unfortunately, that doesn’t happen overnight. It is MUCH more comfortable for him and in line with narrative he’s been telling himself, for him to think you are over reacting and to not want to discuss it, because when he sees the damage he has done to you, he is extremely uncomfortable- it’s destroys his narrative and he is forced to look at the fact that he is in fact an utter shit head.
It’s normal op, but I know it’s another kick in the teeth for you and he needs to get with the programme asap. You say that you’ve looked at Surviving Infidelity, but has he? You of course want to understand why he could do this, but he needs to want to understand too……

Good for you. Honestly, you are a legend, and he has been an utter fool to risk everything the two of you have built together.

Oh and he hasn’t embarrassed you or made you look small at all. He has embarrassed himself, he has made himself look small. This is absolutely NOTHING to do with you, do NOT take on one minute of his shame. Let him bloody carry it, it is not yours.

Sorry op I haven’t read the full thread yet but you ask early on about a cheaters handbook:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/1634754-Men-affairs-what-is-the-script

Wow, @PleaseVipersHelpMe, you really packed a punch when you read him the riot act. Those were powerful words and right on target.

You are correct that he needs to think and act in sustained, definitive and proactive ways to help you heal and restore your trust. After all, he brought this OW into your marriage, and defiled the words you hold dear by gifting them to her. That is a huge betrayal.

I suggest that he access IC to investigate his deficiencies before you do CC together. As you told him, you and the marriage did not cause him to make these unethical choices. He was responsible for protecting his fidelity but he failed miserably, due to a combination of character flaws such as selfishness, entitlement, weak boundaries, dysfunctional coping skills, and a thirst for external gratification. They are still present, so he must examine them to become a safe partner.

A major concern is his minimizing his infidelity and continuing to lie after you confronted him. He kept lying about the car, and he is still lying that he isn’t attracted to OW. His gushing remarks and big efforts were clearly infused with electric energy and frisson, and he needs to admit it. Feeling entitled to continue downplaying and lying will lead to a false reconciliation.

I would advise to hold off on CC until he has worked on himself with a professional and plugged into survivinginfidelity, especially the Wayward section. I am glad that you are checking it out, as the advice and resources are excellent.

Consider seeking IC for yourself, @PleaseVipersHelpMe. It could be a godsend as a support as you move through this trauma that H has inflicted.

Well done @PleaseVipersHelpMe again. You have put the ball firmly in his court. The embarrassment belongs there, too. He will either step up, or not, in the counselling (probably best if he starts alone, don’t know, everyone/every couple is unique). He needs to understand he has to re-build the foundations he destroyed, or not - and there is no quick fix and this won’t disappear overnight (even if she does). I hope you clarified in response to his ‘you want money’ comment (what a div, of course you don’t 🙄).

Christ! I am rather worried he is going to rock up with a bunch of supermarket chrysanthemums!

He doesn’t want to pay the price for what he has done. He wants you to shut the fuck up and get back in your box.

You sound incredible OP. You can definitely have a happy life without him.

This makes total sense. I think that if he has to face up to what he’s done then he really is that sad old cliche that has hurt his wife with his mid-life crisis. I don’t think he is ready to accept that he is that man.

I did tell him that I’ve been online looking at ways to move past this and asked what he had done. He said that he wants to wait to see the therapist and deal with it there rather that look on the internet. I said the internet is not a bad thing and there are lots of resources on there. He said that just because he wants to do things differently to me it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t care. I disagree tbh.

Thanks so much for your post, it was really helpful and just what I needed to hear. Unless he can face it head on there is no way forward.

Thank you so much. I don’t feel like that but I must admit I do feel stronger and more confident for getting those things off my chest. I deserve his full effort and if I don’t get that I’m prepared to move on. I really feel like I’ve turned a corner today.

I know this deep down but it is difficult to think of the two of them carrying on and her being so sweet to my face while she knew he was saying those things to her.

Youte right though. He is the one who should be ashamed. His behaviour has been a real bloody embarrassment that’s for sure. Thank you again.

Thank you this will be good reading material for when I can’t sleep tonight.

I have suggested that he also seek IC and told him that I will be doing so. I help need to work through this tbh and to help me deal with all the feelings and emotions. Whether or not he does is up to him. I agree that it would be beneficial but he is an adult and I can’t force him. We have an online consultation today for CC so I will suggest it in the presence of the therapist and see what he says. Funnily enough, he’s very keen for me to have IC as he thinks it will help me with my justifiable anger.

Unfortunately he has no interest in seeking advice from ‘the internet’ so he definitely won’t be referencing surviving infidelity which is a shame as it’s a don’t of useful insight. Knob.

I agree about the minimising and I think that’s the thing that bothers me the most. If he can’t understand how wrong his actions are, what’s to stop him repeating them. That will be the ultimate decider for me but to be honest I just don’t think that he cares enough (about me or her actually) to put in anything beyond a token effort.

Thank you for the excellent advice.

@PleaseVipersHelpMe just wanted to say that was a great response and you are absolutely 💯 correct in everything you've said to him. You sound very fair and balanced. As others have said whatever the outcome you will be ok.

Thank you I agree. Time will tell if he wants to change or not. At least now I feel more prepared for the fact that he may not and I have a plan.

And I absolutely did clarify. I told him that he’d obviously become accustomed to throwing money at women to show them that he cares, but he should know after all those years that’s not what I meant. I was talking about time and emotional costs, not financial.

Honestly, if we were at home I think he would! Another one of the messages was him asking her the name of the local to work florist the day before my birthday. Great to see the leven of effort he put in there too the bloody tosser.

Thank you for your kind words.