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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My dh has been messaging a colleague. Please can I have some practical and moral support

854 replies

PleaseVipersHelpMe · 22/07/2024 15:25

NC but been here forever. Not really sure why as he would recognise the whole thing in an instant but I need the help and I’d rather he didn’t know. Please can I ask for some support?

I’m on holiday and finally plucked to the courage to ask my dh to let me see his phone. Told him it’s because I was feeling jealous of this woman (true). He let me, but obviously didn’t realise that he has to delete his deleted messages from the recently deleted file and I found quite a lot but only up till about 3 months ago, nothing before. Him telling her that he misses her. Texting when he was away telling me how much he misses me. Telling her that she’s one of the greatest people he has ever met. That he wants her in his life. Then arranging to pick her up from her house on his mid-life crisis car that i stupidly encouraged him to treat himself to. I feel so fucking stupid.

I took screenshots of everything and send them to myself but he’s insisting that nothing happened, that she was just his friend and he’s crossed the line but no affair. I haven’t found anything in emails or what’s app either. Is there anywhere else I can check without alerting him. I have full access to bank accounts and nothing untoward there so far but we don’t have online banking for one account (I can check that when I get home).

I feel so betrayed but the fact that he’s lying to me is worse. He’s treating me like an idiot. He insinuated in the texts that he was going to get her a company car but is saying he hasn’t actually done it. Funnily enough emails seem to be missing re this. He’s clearly been deleting calls from his call log but I don’t know whew do look to find them and I’m pretty sure they will be all gone now if not before. I know he’s lying is there anywhere I can look to find evidence of this? He won’t let me have the phone without him being there now.

I know it won’t make me feel better but it will make me feel like I’ve outsmarted him a bit and I wave him to feel as on edge as I do. I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach and I’m trying to be normal for the kids but I’ve just been sick. I’m supposed to go out for fucking dinner with them all now and be normal. I‘m trying so hard to not upset the kids, they deserve better. This is horrendous. I’ve honestly told so many women on here what to do in this situation but I can’t believe this has happened to me. How could he do this. Any why does he think that shagging her is worse than lying to me? Thanks in advance for any help, and for reading ny ridiculous essay. I will respond to and replies as and when I can after dinner.

OP posts:
coffeenootropics · 21/08/2024 09:47

PleaseVipersHelpMe · 21/08/2024 05:08

Thank you. I’m certainly not happy at the minute but I really hope that finally taking the decision to leave and making changes to improve my life will eventually bring me some peace at least.

Edited

have you made the decision to leave? that is such good news if you have 🌺

TennerTuesday · 21/08/2024 10:32

It’s almost impossible to be the villain in your own story. Our brains almost don’t allow it. I wonder if this is why your DH is seemingly unable to show remorse or empathy. It means casting himself as the bad guy, which he is, but in my experience, it takes a LONG time and a lot of hindsight for them to get to a point of feeling true remorse. My DH had an affair and it was about 4 years before he really felt the weight of the damage he had done, and the guilt. By which time I was well and truly not in love with him anymore.

coffeenootropics · 21/08/2024 10:34

TennerTuesday · 21/08/2024 10:32

It’s almost impossible to be the villain in your own story. Our brains almost don’t allow it. I wonder if this is why your DH is seemingly unable to show remorse or empathy. It means casting himself as the bad guy, which he is, but in my experience, it takes a LONG time and a lot of hindsight for them to get to a point of feeling true remorse. My DH had an affair and it was about 4 years before he really felt the weight of the damage he had done, and the guilt. By which time I was well and truly not in love with him anymore.

did you leave him?

MeridianB · 21/08/2024 11:43

Didsomeonesaydogs · 21/08/2024 07:29

I had one like this. Empathy for everyone other than his wife and kids. They only have empathy when it makes them look good and it’s not them who has actually caused the problem. He doesn’t feel empathy because he thinks he’s the real victim here.

I don't know much about genuine narcissism but this sounds like what I'm starting to learn about - the 'showman/hero' behaviours which make that person appear amazing to others but it's all switched off for those closest to them.

Aria999 · 21/08/2024 12:39

OP I have read the full thread and I hope you do what works for you.

I'm going to go against the grain here and probably get flamed. Of course I don't know exactly what was in his messages to the other woman or the details of how he's behaving to you.

But I was surprised to hear you are ending up leaving over this. I have some sympathy with what your DH is saying; he made a mistake, he's sorry, and he's trying to make it better but he isn't sure what to do or say. Nothing physical happened and it may well never have been going to. One person's emotional affair is another person's good friendship that got a bit too flirty.

After all supermarket flowers are still flowers. He's trying.

I think you sound very level headed and I doubt you would let a mumsnet thread influence you into feeling more betrayed than you actually need to. But I wish it could have worked out for the two of you.

Stripedchutney · 21/08/2024 13:07

Didsomeonesaydogs · 21/08/2024 07:29

I had one like this. Empathy for everyone other than his wife and kids. They only have empathy when it makes them look good and it’s not them who has actually caused the problem. He doesn’t feel empathy because he thinks he’s the real victim here.

My DH to a tee. To all the world he’s mister empathic, ally to the oppressed. Gentle kind engaged dad. How lucky people think I am.

But if I question him on anything, if I make even the slightest hint he may be less than perfect and the gloves are off. He’s verbally abusive and awful.

I have figured out he has a narcissistic personality style (not personality disorder) and his empathy is ‘performance empathy’. So if he does things to look after me or help me, everyone hears about his heroic acts or he will bring it back up in an argument - basically I can’t find anything he does unreasonable in any way because ‘of all this he’s done for’ me.

I’ve noticed very conversation he has with others ALWAYS includes a story that makes him look great. He will put himself out for others, even if that impacts on me negatively in some way.

Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

He DARVOs me any time I raise an issue with him.

Fragile male ego.

Stripedchutney · 21/08/2024 13:08

MeridianB · 21/08/2024 11:43

I don't know much about genuine narcissism but this sounds like what I'm starting to learn about - the 'showman/hero' behaviours which make that person appear amazing to others but it's all switched off for those closest to them.

Yup. Performance empathy. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

Thinkpositivethoughts1 · 21/08/2024 13:16

Aria999 · 21/08/2024 12:39

OP I have read the full thread and I hope you do what works for you.

I'm going to go against the grain here and probably get flamed. Of course I don't know exactly what was in his messages to the other woman or the details of how he's behaving to you.

But I was surprised to hear you are ending up leaving over this. I have some sympathy with what your DH is saying; he made a mistake, he's sorry, and he's trying to make it better but he isn't sure what to do or say. Nothing physical happened and it may well never have been going to. One person's emotional affair is another person's good friendship that got a bit too flirty.

After all supermarket flowers are still flowers. He's trying.

I think you sound very level headed and I doubt you would let a mumsnet thread influence you into feeling more betrayed than you actually need to. But I wish it could have worked out for the two of you.

I agree with this.
It sounds like your husband has low emotional intelligence; he possibly won’t have realised how much damage he was doing by becoming so close to his female friend.
He’s apologized and said he won’t do it again; he should be given an opportunity to prove he can be a good husband.

OopsyDaisie · 21/08/2024 13:39

@Thinkpositivethoughts1 if you read the initial thread, OP did give the chance ti her H to do all this.
They went on 2 therapy sessions together where he played the victim and even put their DD in the middle "she is suffering so much", he never owned up to HIS big mistake and shifts the blame on OP while then going back to trying to be "nice" (flowers, coffee...)
I think, yes, he is indeed really immature (and manipulative??) but if he is not prepared to be an adult and say "I really f**d up, please forgive me, I will prove to you that I can be trusted again and I want tobhelp you heal any way YOU need it to happen", then how is OP to move forward with him?

Didsomeonesaydogs · 21/08/2024 13:42

@Stripedchutney I've never heard of performance empathy but that is absolutely bang on the money! My new favourite phrase!

Stripedchutney · 21/08/2024 14:39

Didsomeonesaydogs · 21/08/2024 13:42

@Stripedchutney I've never heard of performance empathy but that is absolutely bang on the money! My new favourite phrase!

It helps, I think, to have a name for it. I don’t know about you, but I’d be left thinking it must be me. I must be awful. Anything I raised as an issue, no matter how gently put, would be turned on me (classic DARVO) and I see him be this kind lovely person to others and so when I needed something and he was cold, dismissive or irritated I would assume I was somehow in the wrong. As I was talking to a friend about what was happening she suggested Narcissistic personality style but it didn’t fit - purely because he is so empathic. It was only when she explained the idea of performance empathy that it all clicked into place and now I can see it so clearly. Helps to not be manipulated and pushed around by it all.

TennerTuesday · 21/08/2024 15:08

coffeenootropics · 21/08/2024 10:34

did you leave him?

Sadly not. At the time I couldn’t leave as I was pregnant, had a 3 yo, it was lockdown, and I definitely needed him. I focussed on myself, became more independent, retrained to a better career. Now I feel emotionally more ready to leave but so much time has passed and our relationship is much better in many ways. I feel like I missed my chance. I now feel throughly stuck because like I said, I don’t really love him, but life is good, he’s kind, hasn’t cheated again…

coffeenootropics · 21/08/2024 15:32

Aria999 · 21/08/2024 12:39

OP I have read the full thread and I hope you do what works for you.

I'm going to go against the grain here and probably get flamed. Of course I don't know exactly what was in his messages to the other woman or the details of how he's behaving to you.

But I was surprised to hear you are ending up leaving over this. I have some sympathy with what your DH is saying; he made a mistake, he's sorry, and he's trying to make it better but he isn't sure what to do or say. Nothing physical happened and it may well never have been going to. One person's emotional affair is another person's good friendship that got a bit too flirty.

After all supermarket flowers are still flowers. He's trying.

I think you sound very level headed and I doubt you would let a mumsnet thread influence you into feeling more betrayed than you actually need to. But I wish it could have worked out for the two of you.

the fact that the Op uncovered “almost an affair” much earlier on in the marriage would lead me to believe this latest situation isn’t one of a number of the intervening years

coffeenootropics · 21/08/2024 15:33

TennerTuesday · 21/08/2024 15:08

Sadly not. At the time I couldn’t leave as I was pregnant, had a 3 yo, it was lockdown, and I definitely needed him. I focussed on myself, became more independent, retrained to a better career. Now I feel emotionally more ready to leave but so much time has passed and our relationship is much better in many ways. I feel like I missed my chance. I now feel throughly stuck because like I said, I don’t really love him, but life is good, he’s kind, hasn’t cheated again…

you ate young
you are with a man you categorically do not love
you have not “missed your chance”

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 22/08/2024 09:29

Aria999 · 21/08/2024 12:39

OP I have read the full thread and I hope you do what works for you.

I'm going to go against the grain here and probably get flamed. Of course I don't know exactly what was in his messages to the other woman or the details of how he's behaving to you.

But I was surprised to hear you are ending up leaving over this. I have some sympathy with what your DH is saying; he made a mistake, he's sorry, and he's trying to make it better but he isn't sure what to do or say. Nothing physical happened and it may well never have been going to. One person's emotional affair is another person's good friendship that got a bit too flirty.

After all supermarket flowers are still flowers. He's trying.

I think you sound very level headed and I doubt you would let a mumsnet thread influence you into feeling more betrayed than you actually need to. But I wish it could have worked out for the two of you.

I agree with this. Take your time @PleaseVipersHelpMe and do what's right for you

coffeenootropics · 22/08/2024 10:49

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 22/08/2024 09:29

I agree with this. Take your time @PleaseVipersHelpMe and do what's right for you

the op posted this a month today
i think she’s definitely “giving it time”

but i think now made the decision to leave him anyway as per last post?

stokes81 · 23/08/2024 15:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

ncforthis2024 · 23/08/2024 16:30

Hi OP. I’m sorry to hijack your thread - I posted a similar one at a similar time (called ‘Just discovered DH affair - please help me’) and PMd you (after other lovely Mumsnetters advised it).

In short, discovered letters, texts, late night phonecalls, nudes, sexting, cuddles at work and one episode of ‘cuddling on a friends sofa’ - with his assistant who he works with all day everyday. I’m almost certain there was nothing physical (only because she describes how amazing it will when they eventually kiss in one of her most recent messages 🤢).

In my case, I was numb at first but now am filled with such grief and despair. I contacted the OW (and maintained ultimate grace - she lied and covered both of their tracks without one iota of empathy or apology) and we have been to couples therapy. However, it transpires he contacted her again AFTER therapy session (naturally he claims he didn’t need to tell me because ‘it was just about work’).

I had to get it deleted because he found it and claimed I’d shared personal identifying information which was ‘illegal’ (obviously bullshit and I hadn’t shared anything identifying but anyway - I didn’t want to give him another stick to beat me with). I’m sure a lot of kind mnetters replied to both our threads.

I just wanted to say your strength has inspired me so much. Im not sure if you’re the same but I swing wildly between ‘absolute divorce’ to ‘absolute another go for the kids’ every five minutes, and your periods of rage that come from nowhere really resonate with me.

What do you think is the worst part of all of your ‘d’hs behaviour? For me, I think it’s 1) the minimising - he seems to think that because it was ‘just for attention’ then it’s not as bad. In my opinion, ‘just for attention’ means absolutely nothing - we should be judged on our actions, not imaginary thoughts in our own heads. 2) His lack of accountability. He says he’s told me everything, but only when I’ve dragged it out of him like blood from a stone by showing him the evidence in all its glory. He hasn’t volunteered anything and has kept other things from me. So if that what I’ve found - what else has been deleted and hidden. 3) Lack of grovelling - yes, he’s begged, cried and sobbed. But only for a few days. He seems to think he’s done enough and I should be over it by now. As if making me a cup of tea is him moving int he right direction.

Are you similar? I imagine all men who can do this to their wives follow the same pattern.

It’s infuriating and like you, I can’t have a conversation with him without wanting to put my head through a wall at his stupidity.

You are so strong ❤️ I’m here with you in a similar and terrible situation x

handpicked81 · 24/08/2024 14:45

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

PleaseVipersHelpMe · 25/08/2024 19:34

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, advice and sharing your experiences. I have read every one but I hope you’ll forgive me not responding to every post but I’m really struggling to find alone time now that I’m back in real life.

To answer a few questions, my kids are absolutely fine with the situation. I had a lovely couple of days away with dd this week and she is far more concerned about going back to school, and ds is busy living his best life with his pals (he hasn’t mentioned anything at all except to laugh that ‘Dad’s in the doghouse’). I think as pp’s have said they are more concerned with their own lives and I for one am very relieved that is the case. We are a close family and tend to do things together and I don’t see why that should change until we are clear on our next move.

In absolute fairness I should point out that dh is actually genuinely caring and there is no performance about it. As I’ve already stated many times he is a wonderful father and a lovely person. He usually has empathy for me too, it’s only in this particular situation that it has been sorely lacking.

Up until getting back from my trip with dd I had decided to leave and I had told dh as much via text the morning we went away (far easier than trying to maintain a civilised conversation face to face). I told him again all of the things that had most hurt me and why and that I’d realised that I was wasting my time trying to make him understand when he should just know. If his ego was preventing him from doing that then that’s on him. I was only saying it one last time so that I could know in my heart that I had done everything I could before moving on.

He tried to text me a few times and I ignored. He said I was right, he knows it’s all on him and he’s sorry he made me this unhappy. Then later that he loves me and doesn’t want to move on. Then after that he asked me to not give up on us. Well I had to respond to that to explain that I hadn’t given up on us. I had done everything I could to save us but he had given me nothing, and worse, made me almost beg him to try and understand. I told him that our relationship is no longer a safe place for me and now I’ve seen things as they are there is no going back for me. We then didn’t speak until dd and I arrived back late the following evening so thankfully no time for chat then.

The next morning he told me he loved me and I asked him to stop that. He apologised. Then he rang me when I was on my way to work and I could feel that his tone was different. He was apologetic and humble but most importantly, honest. Since then I can truly feel the change in him. He’s answering everything I’m asking and I’m getting far more detail. That doesn’t necessarily make anything less painful but it helps to know that he’s not lying. As it stands I’ve agreed to try again but been very honest in that I may not be able to work through this. He couldn’t do any more than he is now. The car has finally gone, he’s being the lovely, thoughtful man I used to know wanting to spend time with me and go away together and he took me out the other day as a surprise and wanted to buy me something very special (old habits die hard clearly). Obviously I didn’t let him but it felt like the intention to make this up to me was there when it wasn’t before.

The problem now is that I’m not sure if it’s too little too late. I feel awful as he’s doing everything I’ve asked for all along and I know that he means it but I just don’t feel like I can get past this. He still betrayed me. He still kept secrets and lied. He still humiliated me with her. He still made her think that I’m nothing to him, even for a short while. How am I supposed to forgive that? Even if he is making it up to me now, he’s still taken so much from me.

This week has been so difficult. I’ve cried so much - literally racking, heaving sobs at inopportune moments, thankfully always in private. I’m doing what the counsellor said and sitting with the feelings but it’s truly horrendous. It’s almost like I’m past the anger (although not always) but now sadness and grief has hit like a tonne of bricks. I’m so sad for what we have lost and will never get back. I don’t think I could ever be this open and trust anyone blindly again after this. I do still love him so much. I can see how this all happened and that I’ve made mistakes too. But I’m not sure I can ever forgive the betrayal. I just don’t think I’m strong enough.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted words of support and kindness. It is truly appreciated.

OP posts:
2sisters · 25/08/2024 19:51

PleaseVipersHelpMe · 25/08/2024 19:34

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, advice and sharing your experiences. I have read every one but I hope you’ll forgive me not responding to every post but I’m really struggling to find alone time now that I’m back in real life.

To answer a few questions, my kids are absolutely fine with the situation. I had a lovely couple of days away with dd this week and she is far more concerned about going back to school, and ds is busy living his best life with his pals (he hasn’t mentioned anything at all except to laugh that ‘Dad’s in the doghouse’). I think as pp’s have said they are more concerned with their own lives and I for one am very relieved that is the case. We are a close family and tend to do things together and I don’t see why that should change until we are clear on our next move.

In absolute fairness I should point out that dh is actually genuinely caring and there is no performance about it. As I’ve already stated many times he is a wonderful father and a lovely person. He usually has empathy for me too, it’s only in this particular situation that it has been sorely lacking.

Up until getting back from my trip with dd I had decided to leave and I had told dh as much via text the morning we went away (far easier than trying to maintain a civilised conversation face to face). I told him again all of the things that had most hurt me and why and that I’d realised that I was wasting my time trying to make him understand when he should just know. If his ego was preventing him from doing that then that’s on him. I was only saying it one last time so that I could know in my heart that I had done everything I could before moving on.

He tried to text me a few times and I ignored. He said I was right, he knows it’s all on him and he’s sorry he made me this unhappy. Then later that he loves me and doesn’t want to move on. Then after that he asked me to not give up on us. Well I had to respond to that to explain that I hadn’t given up on us. I had done everything I could to save us but he had given me nothing, and worse, made me almost beg him to try and understand. I told him that our relationship is no longer a safe place for me and now I’ve seen things as they are there is no going back for me. We then didn’t speak until dd and I arrived back late the following evening so thankfully no time for chat then.

The next morning he told me he loved me and I asked him to stop that. He apologised. Then he rang me when I was on my way to work and I could feel that his tone was different. He was apologetic and humble but most importantly, honest. Since then I can truly feel the change in him. He’s answering everything I’m asking and I’m getting far more detail. That doesn’t necessarily make anything less painful but it helps to know that he’s not lying. As it stands I’ve agreed to try again but been very honest in that I may not be able to work through this. He couldn’t do any more than he is now. The car has finally gone, he’s being the lovely, thoughtful man I used to know wanting to spend time with me and go away together and he took me out the other day as a surprise and wanted to buy me something very special (old habits die hard clearly). Obviously I didn’t let him but it felt like the intention to make this up to me was there when it wasn’t before.

The problem now is that I’m not sure if it’s too little too late. I feel awful as he’s doing everything I’ve asked for all along and I know that he means it but I just don’t feel like I can get past this. He still betrayed me. He still kept secrets and lied. He still humiliated me with her. He still made her think that I’m nothing to him, even for a short while. How am I supposed to forgive that? Even if he is making it up to me now, he’s still taken so much from me.

This week has been so difficult. I’ve cried so much - literally racking, heaving sobs at inopportune moments, thankfully always in private. I’m doing what the counsellor said and sitting with the feelings but it’s truly horrendous. It’s almost like I’m past the anger (although not always) but now sadness and grief has hit like a tonne of bricks. I’m so sad for what we have lost and will never get back. I don’t think I could ever be this open and trust anyone blindly again after this. I do still love him so much. I can see how this all happened and that I’ve made mistakes too. But I’m not sure I can ever forgive the betrayal. I just don’t think I’m strong enough.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted words of support and kindness. It is truly appreciated.

Did he provide you with all the phone / text records for both company mobiles?

In all honesty I don't believe he gets it. I think it's performative. In my view he's managed you throughout this situation and continues to try different tactics hoping that one of them stick. While waiting for you to STFU and get over it.

Obviously, you've know him for a lifetime so hopefully you see through his bullshit.

PleaseVipersHelpMe · 25/08/2024 19:59

ncforthis2024 · 23/08/2024 16:30

Hi OP. I’m sorry to hijack your thread - I posted a similar one at a similar time (called ‘Just discovered DH affair - please help me’) and PMd you (after other lovely Mumsnetters advised it).

In short, discovered letters, texts, late night phonecalls, nudes, sexting, cuddles at work and one episode of ‘cuddling on a friends sofa’ - with his assistant who he works with all day everyday. I’m almost certain there was nothing physical (only because she describes how amazing it will when they eventually kiss in one of her most recent messages 🤢).

In my case, I was numb at first but now am filled with such grief and despair. I contacted the OW (and maintained ultimate grace - she lied and covered both of their tracks without one iota of empathy or apology) and we have been to couples therapy. However, it transpires he contacted her again AFTER therapy session (naturally he claims he didn’t need to tell me because ‘it was just about work’).

I had to get it deleted because he found it and claimed I’d shared personal identifying information which was ‘illegal’ (obviously bullshit and I hadn’t shared anything identifying but anyway - I didn’t want to give him another stick to beat me with). I’m sure a lot of kind mnetters replied to both our threads.

I just wanted to say your strength has inspired me so much. Im not sure if you’re the same but I swing wildly between ‘absolute divorce’ to ‘absolute another go for the kids’ every five minutes, and your periods of rage that come from nowhere really resonate with me.

What do you think is the worst part of all of your ‘d’hs behaviour? For me, I think it’s 1) the minimising - he seems to think that because it was ‘just for attention’ then it’s not as bad. In my opinion, ‘just for attention’ means absolutely nothing - we should be judged on our actions, not imaginary thoughts in our own heads. 2) His lack of accountability. He says he’s told me everything, but only when I’ve dragged it out of him like blood from a stone by showing him the evidence in all its glory. He hasn’t volunteered anything and has kept other things from me. So if that what I’ve found - what else has been deleted and hidden. 3) Lack of grovelling - yes, he’s begged, cried and sobbed. But only for a few days. He seems to think he’s done enough and I should be over it by now. As if making me a cup of tea is him moving int he right direction.

Are you similar? I imagine all men who can do this to their wives follow the same pattern.

It’s infuriating and like you, I can’t have a conversation with him without wanting to put my head through a wall at his stupidity.

You are so strong ❤️ I’m here with you in a similar and terrible situation x

I’m so glad to hear from you, I’ve thought of you a lot and wondered how you’re getting on.

Your dh sounds very much like mine. What he has said this week is that he knows that everything he did was wrong, he understands that he used his ‘issues’ with me to justify his actions and that he didn’t really think about hurting me as he didn’t really think that most of what he had done was wrong at the time (now he knows how fucking dickish it was) and that he didn’t think I would find out. It’s only taken us a month to get to that level of honesty. It would have meant so much more if it was immediate.

A pp said that it’s almost impossible to see yourself as the villain in your own story and this is very true in dh’s case. He has admitted that he found it far easier to blame me than to look at his own deceitful behaviour because he didn’t want to admit that he was that person. Now that he has that understanding he is genuinely and thoroughly ashamed of himself. However this understanding only came when he realised that I was going to walk away and as I have said up thread it may be too little too late for me now.

The minimising was so hurtful to me too as well as the lack of accountability and lack of grovelling. I’m in no position to be giving advice but a good friend of mine told me to stop worrying about him and think about what I want. That really helped me. I realised that I can’t control him. He will either accept responsibility and be genuinely sorry or he won’t. But I can control me so starting to think about how I could improve my life in general and making plans for myself was a positive step. Of course I’m still up and down. After a great kick-ass week last week, this week aside from taking my daughter away and work I’ve literally just cried and slept.

I’ve said this before but you don’t need to make any decisions yet. Go easy on yourself and just do the best you can. Make sure you’re looking after yourself as best you can. See a therapist on your own if you can and speak to your friends and family and let them support you with this. Also I highly recommend ‘How to overcome trauma and find yourself again’ by Dr Jessamy Hibberd. There are lots of practical tips to help regulate your nervous system and cope with things in there. ‘Not just friends’ by Dr Shirley Glass was recommended to me on this thread and that offers a great insight, particularly for your dh if he will read it.

You are doing great and I know you will be fine, with or without him. I know how hard this is but you will get through it. This will pass (I wish it would pass more quickly but try to hold on to the fact that it will).

Good luck with everything.❤️

OP posts:
XChrome · 25/08/2024 20:52

Stripedchutney · 21/08/2024 14:39

It helps, I think, to have a name for it. I don’t know about you, but I’d be left thinking it must be me. I must be awful. Anything I raised as an issue, no matter how gently put, would be turned on me (classic DARVO) and I see him be this kind lovely person to others and so when I needed something and he was cold, dismissive or irritated I would assume I was somehow in the wrong. As I was talking to a friend about what was happening she suggested Narcissistic personality style but it didn’t fit - purely because he is so empathic. It was only when she explained the idea of performance empathy that it all clicked into place and now I can see it so clearly. Helps to not be manipulated and pushed around by it all.

Narcissists can have cognitive empathy, which means you can perceive how people feel. They need to have this in order to figure out how to impress people. However, they do not have emotional empathy, which involves caring about how people feel and having compassion for them. They don't need it in order to impress people because they can simply pretend they care.
The evolution of a narcissist as they learn and grow is devoted to learning experiences that benefit the creation and maintenance of the false self, which is their fake identity that exists only to serve their egotism. They have no real identity. They are pathetic people really.

TennerTuesday · 25/08/2024 21:45

I’m wondering if there’s another way of looking at the lack of grovelling and apologies early on. He chose to do something that he knew was wrong, and then had to stop when he got found out. If he had been instantly sorry and desperately trying to make things up to you, would this not have seemed a little disingenuous? I probably would have been thinking “how can you be so sorry? Just don’t do the shitty thing, if you care so much?” He needed the time, the cold light of day, for the gravity to hit home. I’m DEFINITELY not trying to defend him by the way, I hope it doesn’t come across like that. It’s just something I’ve been pondering.

Capeprimrose · 25/08/2024 21:55

I'm really rooting for you OP, but I have a niggle that his Damacene moment is his realising you are actually emotionally half way out the door already, it just seems too convenient.

I truly hope it all works out for the best for you, whatever you decide.
Just make sure you protect yourself.

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