My dh has been messaging a colleague. Please can I have some practical and moral support

[PleaseVipersHelpMe]

NC but been here forever. Not really sure why as he would recognise the whole thing in an instant but I need the help and I’d rather he didn’t know. Please can I ask for some support?

I’m on holiday and finally plucked to the courage to ask my dh to let me see his phone. Told him it’s because I was feeling jealous of this woman (true). He let me, but obviously didn’t realise that he has to delete his deleted messages from the recently deleted file and I found quite a lot but only up till about 3 months ago, nothing before. Him telling her that he misses her. Texting when he was away telling me how much he misses me. Telling her that she’s one of the greatest people he has ever met. That he wants her in his life. Then arranging to pick her up from her house on his mid-life crisis car that i stupidly encouraged him to treat himself to. I feel so fucking stupid.

I took screenshots of everything and send them to myself but he’s insisting that nothing happened, that she was just his friend and he’s crossed the line but no affair. I haven’t found anything in emails or what’s app either. Is there anywhere else I can check without alerting him. I have full access to bank accounts and nothing untoward there so far but we don’t have online banking for one account (I can check that when I get home).

I feel so betrayed but the fact that he’s lying to me is worse. He’s treating me like an idiot. He insinuated in the texts that he was going to get her a company car but is saying he hasn’t actually done it. Funnily enough emails seem to be missing re this. He’s clearly been deleting calls from his call log but I don’t know whew do look to find them and I’m pretty sure they will be all gone now if not before. I know he’s lying is there anywhere I can look to find evidence of this? He won’t let me have the phone without him being there now.

I know it won’t make me feel better but it will make me feel like I’ve outsmarted him a bit and I wave him to feel as on edge as I do. I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach and I’m trying to be normal for the kids but I’ve just been sick. I’m supposed to go out for fucking dinner with them all now and be normal. I‘m trying so hard to not upset the kids, they deserve better. This is horrendous. I’ve honestly told so many women on here what to do in this situation but I can’t believe this has happened to me. How could he do this. Any why does he think that shagging her is worse than lying to me? Thanks in advance for any help, and for reading ny ridiculous essay. I will respond to and replies as and when I can after dinner.

3 months gives him enough time to prove he is worth it (which he won't) or alternatively gives you enough time to get everything in place for a separation.

If you havent already:

1. Make sure you are setting money aside into a separate account
2. Contacting a solicitor for legal advice
3. Consulting estate agents for rentals etc if needed

You mention that your husband brings up things you did in the past. Do you mind me asking if you had cheated kn him on the past? Only asking to understand why he brings up the past and how it compares to his actions.
I saw comments suggesting you contact the OW. I would advise you against doing so. In my experience, other women are much more conniving that the wife/girlfriend, she wknt give you answers or will twist the truth to her own benefit. Or since she's an employee she will use you contacting her against you or your husbands business.
Also it will be no good badmouthing her to your "DH".
Don't give in to your DH tears about them being friends. Him going no contact with her is the best way.
The thong I struggle to understand is how a man of his age and his (assumed) intelligence cannot understand that an employee will talk nicely to him and be friendly with him because he is the boss. How can he be so naive.
Lastly, I will be devil's advocate here but him no longer wanting you to look at the phone might be him trying to put a stop to what seems like endless talking about the "affair". A bit like a child putting hands over his ears to avoid hearing being told off. To stop you raking over the details. But on the other hand, it's part of your healing, and I'd hope he would understand that.
The initial few posts from you OP were very promising that your DH will make things right and you can heal and reconnect again. I'm still hopeful but he needs to be a willing participant in the healing process.

How does coupke therapy works? I've never been for any form of counselling so genuine question. Does the therapist tell the husband (or wife) that they are talking bollocks? Or is it all vague questions like "and why do you feel this way" and "how did that make you feel"

I'm sorry to say but what you have posted recently about what he is saying to you and how he is reacting to you seems to be very unsympathetic - it sounds like he resents you and, to be frank, doesn't even like you much, let alone love you.
He's also said in counselling that he's been unhappy for years.
Have you asked him why he wants to stay married to you - is it just for convenience, to not want the disruption or to split the family finances?

@PleaseVipersHelpMe of course OW doesn’t argue. Work-wise he’s her boss so she just has to get on with it. As OW she’s in the ‘he’s so great’ phase so of course she isn’t arguing (yet). It’s not the same at all 🙄 - eyeroll is for OP’s DH.

OP. Is there no way at all he could go somewhere for a few days. Been in the same house is impossible and I feel like you could really do with some space away to process this.

I just wanted to give you a big hug in these difficult times - you’ve been given excellent advice on this thread and I really can’t add to that. But if there is anything that is clear to me after reading all these messages is that you can do this and you can find peace and happiness in the future. Best of luck!

Well done OP.

Sucking up his appalling behaviour would have made you ill.
His looking at you like you are mad is an attempt to manipulate and gaslight you.
He knows only too bloody well what he is doing.

He has completely turned to DARVO because you haven't rolled over and accepted his bullshit unquestioningly.

Don't be fooled by him.
You can see exactly his game.
Well done for asking why he didn't think of your daughter when he was sniffing around this woman.
The sheer bloody cheek of him.

Whatever small chance you have of getting past this, I believe you have less than zero chance if you don't firmly challenge the utter bullshit that he is spewing at you.

It really is the saddest thing when you read of long marriages when wives see a 360 degree about turn in men when infidelity occurs.

What is it about infidelity that is so corrosive of men that were once seemingly good partners?.
It really must be devastating to witness up close.

Because he really isn't a very nice man

He is treating you and his children very badly

And also, now, the OW,

He's picked her up, chucked her away with no explanation and then she's going to be out of a job

The instigator of all this meanwhile is playing the victim

He's really quite unpleasant

Don't contact the OW.
Your marriage isn't her business.

I suggest that you try and be patient with the therapy. You said one more session, but if you truly want to try and work through things, you need more than that.

He says if the therapist says access to phone/email is required, then he'll give it. No good therapist will answer that question. It's about him understanding what you need in order to trust him and feel safe. That's what you need. The question is, is he prepared to do what you need and allow access to help regain your trust.

Yes, it can feel like a loss of privacy. It can feel uncomfortable and that even in communication with his friends, he had to watch every word... but if access to his phone is something you really need, then he had to decide if he's going to give it and understand your position if he doesn't.

I will say though, that is no way to live having to be the marriage police. If he truly wants to get up to no good, he could get another phone. He could use apps to do it. People who are on a mission to cheat will find a way.

There are places online dedicated to cheating without being caught.

I also wanted to say, you've done well to acknowledge some wrong doing in the past. Resentment can build up. This is your marriage, don't let so many people weighing in and saying to leave him be your deciding factor.

Sandy, @PleaseVipersHelpMe is asking to see his and OW’s previous messages to get the complete picture, but he is refusing.

Look at how much emotional energy you're expending trying to get this man to think, feel and act the way he should.

Let's say you get there in the end. You, or the counsellor finally get through to him and he turns things around, becomes contrite and agreeable. Will that make you happy? Will it feel authentic if it's been (metaphorically) beaten into him? How much resentment will you feel for what you had to go through to get him to that point, and how much trust will you have that he'll maintain it without continuous effort from you?

It would seem like a hollow victory to me. Having been through very similar, with the benefit of hindsight I'd have tapped out a lot earlier. The end result would be exactly the same but there'd be a lot more of 'me' intact.

Thanks everyone for your advice and support. I had a great night sleep last night for the first time since this happened and I’m convinced it’s because I enforced my boundaries. Dh has been apologetic and contrite and says he accepts that his behaviour has been appalling all round. He also said I could take his phone with me this weekend (I’ve arranged to be out most of the weekend) but I said that I don’t want that, I just want him not to flinch if I ask to see it. I then asked to see it then and he did hand it straight over. He’s also promised log ins but they haven’t materialised yet - I’m not going to chase, if they don’t appear I know where I stand. As a pp pointed out, I know that this isn’t a long term solution. I don’t want to be checking his emails or phone in a year and if I am then we probably aren’t going to work out. But it does make me feel better now

I’m not really believing the turn around yet given that he’s said all this before. And a few things have made me think that he still may be playing games. Like this morning he said something and I said I thought he was wrong and he snapped again. I took the opportunity to point out that this was exactly the sort of thing I was unhappy about. As it turns out he was right but he can’t seem to stand me challenging him on anything. I pointed out that I’ve never been reluctant to share my opinions so why is he suddenly seeing everything as an attack. He said that it was my tone again and I said fine - if you don’t like my tone, point that out. Don’t fall out with me because I dared to say you might have got something wrong. He did look a bit embarrassed and apologise. He also made a big song and dance about how when I’m out this weekend he’s going to clear out the spare room so he can move in there. I said great, thank you but I felt a bit like he wanted me to react badly to it if that makes sense. What I can definitely tell is that he’s taking me seriously now. He seems to understand that I’m not messing around and acting accordingly. Only time will tell if he means what he’s saying but I feel in a much better place today. Thank you all again.

Hi @PleaseVipersHelpMe, I have been following your thread from the start and am so sorry that you are having to deal with this.

One thing that occurred to me a little while ago was the possibility that your DH may have a second phone somewhere? it is something that happens quite a lot. Although by the sound of it, it did sound like he had stopped contacting his colleague so it might just be my suspicious nature.

@Greyrockin even if he doesn’t have a burner phone now there’s nothing to stop that in the future, which is why playing the marriage police isn’t the answer.

He needs to quit the blame shifting and being argumentative, take accountability and understand why he felt chasing a coworker was a suitable course of action, otherwise he’ll only feel entitled to do it again the next time he feels aggrieved about something in the marriage. (Which is why when my STBXH tried to shift the blame for his choices I knew we were done and there was no going back.)

Glad you had a good nights sleep @PleaseVipersHelpMe You sound like you’ve got a decent plan and a realistic grasp of what it might take to get the relationship back on an even keel if that’s what you want. It definitely still wouldn’t hurt to get a consult with a solicitor to know where you stand.

For what it’s worth op, I’m cheering you on. I think you are doing brilliantly, you are obviously reeling from what’s happened but you keep getting up and standing your corner. Bloody good for you. You shouldn’t have to of course but unless and until your dh “gets it” you are proving to yourself just how strong you are. I almost (but not quite!) feel sorry for him - him has no idea what he’s taken on! Whatever happens op, you are going to be grand xxx

If he's moving into the spare bedroom, You can't pretend all is well with your DC.

I got into his EE account and checked his bills it showed all his calls and texts to the ow for the year that the bills were available. He also got a PAYG Sim which he was swapping so the calls and texts couldn't be traced. He got drunk one night and asked me to pick him up from the pub. I was calling and texting him but he didn't answer. When he got in the car about 45 minutes later he insisted I hadn't called him. We got home he fell asleep on the sofa so I checked his phone so I could show him the next morning how many times I'd called but there was nothing. I called my phone from his thinking there was a problem and an unrecognised number showed up. I was so confused I asked my son who works in a mobile phone store to take a look. He handed me the phone and said he's swapped sim cards and there's a load of texts to another woman. Next day he swore it had only been going on for a few weeks then it was two months but his EE records proved he was lying.

Not sleeping again so snuck downstairs to re-read the thread. So many good questions and lots of great advice here.

No I have never cheated. Dh did come close very early in our relationship prior to dc, also with a colleague. He had been ill so I saw it as a reflection of his state of mind. Nothing like this has happened since until now.

I have had issues with pmdd and had to make several visits to the gp for effective treatment. I wasn’t easy to live with. I also suffered from pnd after dc2 which was tough for both of us and he bore the brunt of that because the dc needed me and he didn’t. I’ve also had issues with dd as previously mentioned. I struggled for a long time to not take her teenage irritability personally. I have worked really hard to deal with all of these things but I think he still sees me as some sort of damaged, irrational woman who is out to get him. This has been very difficult to come to terms with.

I think during recent months he has seen her more as a ‘friend’ than a colleague, Thsts why it’s been so easy for him to cross the boundaries. It’s very wrong and there has been a complete lack of care for the woman as an employee but I do think that’s what happened. I’m still not sure that he accepts how unacceptable his behaviour has been in terms of his duty of care to her. I am still working on this but I think it’s just too difficult for him to come to terms with at this stage.

I agree he thinks that if he stops providing info I will stop asking awkward questions. Again, I’m trying to explain to him that this is part of the process but in absolute fairness I know it’s difficult for him. Not half as difficult as it is for me but I can understand his reluctance. I just need him to stop now and tell me what I need to know.

I’ve only had one session but so far it seems to be getting us both to give our side then asking the odd vague question. She didn’t express any opinions or judgement either way.

He says that he still loves me and that he doesn’t want to be with her or anyone else. That he has dreamed of growing old with me and doing all the things that we said we would over the next few years. And that he never actually wanted an affair and he would have pulled away if she expressed any interest. I haven’t really believed this but he does seem to have been shocked that she has reacted to him cutting her off so he could be that deluded.

I know you are right about the ‘marriage police’ but it’s so difficult to believe him at the minute. If we are still in this situation in the long term then I don’t think there is any point in continuing. I don’t want to live like this either but I just feel so vulnerable at the minute.

I have thought this myself. I suppose it would depend on how genuine his remorse was. I think I have enough awareness now to tell the difference between genuine remorse and lip-service.

There is no second phone and I am sure he isn’t contacting her. I’ve seen the texts and emails that she has sent and she messaged me herself earlier this evening (she doesn’t know that I know). She’s going on holiday soon which was the pretext for her message. It was quite innocuous but definitely a fishing text to see what is going on with us, asking about our holiday, how the kids are etc. Nor that different to a text she would usually send to me but I generally have always text her first and I can’t think of any other occasion when she has messaged me out of the blue like this.