My dh has been messaging a colleague. Please can I have some practical and moral support

[PleaseVipersHelpMe]

NC but been here forever. Not really sure why as he would recognise the whole thing in an instant but I need the help and I’d rather he didn’t know. Please can I ask for some support?

I’m on holiday and finally plucked to the courage to ask my dh to let me see his phone. Told him it’s because I was feeling jealous of this woman (true). He let me, but obviously didn’t realise that he has to delete his deleted messages from the recently deleted file and I found quite a lot but only up till about 3 months ago, nothing before. Him telling her that he misses her. Texting when he was away telling me how much he misses me. Telling her that she’s one of the greatest people he has ever met. That he wants her in his life. Then arranging to pick her up from her house on his mid-life crisis car that i stupidly encouraged him to treat himself to. I feel so fucking stupid.

I took screenshots of everything and send them to myself but he’s insisting that nothing happened, that she was just his friend and he’s crossed the line but no affair. I haven’t found anything in emails or what’s app either. Is there anywhere else I can check without alerting him. I have full access to bank accounts and nothing untoward there so far but we don’t have online banking for one account (I can check that when I get home).

I feel so betrayed but the fact that he’s lying to me is worse. He’s treating me like an idiot. He insinuated in the texts that he was going to get her a company car but is saying he hasn’t actually done it. Funnily enough emails seem to be missing re this. He’s clearly been deleting calls from his call log but I don’t know whew do look to find them and I’m pretty sure they will be all gone now if not before. I know he’s lying is there anywhere I can look to find evidence of this? He won’t let me have the phone without him being there now.

I know it won’t make me feel better but it will make me feel like I’ve outsmarted him a bit and I wave him to feel as on edge as I do. I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach and I’m trying to be normal for the kids but I’ve just been sick. I’m supposed to go out for fucking dinner with them all now and be normal. I‘m trying so hard to not upset the kids, they deserve better. This is horrendous. I’ve honestly told so many women on here what to do in this situation but I can’t believe this has happened to me. How could he do this. Any why does he think that shagging her is worse than lying to me? Thanks in advance for any help, and for reading ny ridiculous essay. I will respond to and replies as and when I can after dinner.

Where was his principles when he was trying to fuck his much younger employee. When he was hiring her a car. When he was sending her messages. Then he didn't care about right or wrong he only cared about having his ego stroked and trying to get his willy wet. Now he's all about principles and right and wrong. He knows you'll 100% gone when you see the true extent of his deception. At the moment he has deniability.

Thank you for more excellent advice. We went to our first therapy session this morning. We gave her the background. Dh cried and did explain quite a lot of how he was feeling. It was tough to hear because he has held on to a lot of things in our past, mistakes that I have made, and built them up in him mind. This is his reasoning for the texts - to make himself feel better because he felt so bad because I had hurt him so much over the past 20 years. He says he can’t talk to me because he holds everything in and that he hates the way I react to things with anger (I am very angry at the minute). He was so emotional throughout it all it was actually quite horrible. He also said that he hates himself.

I don’t know what to think now to be honest. It’s difficult thinking that my husband has been holding onto resentment for that long but I have no doubt that it’s true. He also said that he texted her because he needed a friend and he doesn’t have any. He does have friends but he doesn’t contact them anywhere near as much as her. It’s been a lot to take in. I just asked him what he got from talking to her that he liked / didn’t get from me. He said that she never argued with him or talked down to him (apparently I do, although I would argue that asking him to do things isn’t talking down to him) that he knew he could make her happy which made him feel better about himself as he could never make me happy. We have argued and he hadn’t made me happy for a while but I feel like that’s at least partly because he hasn’t been trying. He still maintains that there is no correlation between talking to her and neglecting our relationship. I think it’s clear as crystal that there is. I’m so confused now.

That’s exactly what I said to him. Why is her opinion more valuable than mine. As it turns out we forgot to ask her anyway.

He says that if that’s the way it has to be then that’s on me. That he has bent enough in our marriage and he wants things to be better now and that means defending the things that he thinks is right and not just giving in to my demands because it has to be right for both of us. In principle I agree, but if it was the other way around I’d let him have the bloody access.

This is exactly what I don’t want to do. I want to be able to believe what he’s saying and stop trying to find more but I feel like in need to know every detail. I know enough now to make valid decisions but I still want more. I hate being like this and need to stop but I don’t know how. I think I’m going to seek help for this as it’s a real struggle.

Thank you for sharing your experience, I hope that you have found happiness now.

He won’t accept this. He is adamant that it is controlling and says I need to decide whether I trust him or not.

How could you trust him? He's positively pathological. He's a liar and a stupid one at that.

@PleaseVipersHelpMe welcome to the rewriting history stage. This is where your husband will come up with all kind of justifications for his infidelity. From “incompatible love languages” to “you don’t use the laundry dosing ball correctly” and the classic “your gravy was too watery”, be prepared to hear all kinds of reasons why he simply had no choice but to cheat, rather than talk to you.

You’re also seeing some super examples of what aboutism. He might have cheated but what about your bad language? He’s betrayed you, but what about your anger issues?

I mean, it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other really isn’t it?!

He’s not remorseful, he’s alternating between feeling sorry for himself because he got caught, justifying himself, and lashing out because you’ve activated his shame.

I agree that he is desperate to manage this whole process. He says that asking him the same questions repeatedly is unfair and that I ‘need help with my anger issues’ whenever I say something that he doesn’t like. He won’t give an inch and that is hurting me as much as his betrayal. I’m not sure if it’s just stubbornness or if he actually just doesn’t care.

A lot came out in therapy this morning and it was pretty brutal. He has obviously held a lot of resentment towards me for a long time which explains a lot. One of the things I raised with him re the most recent texts I found was that when she asked him to do something work related he would do it immediately. If I ask him to do something - anything at all - it becomes a battle and I’m ‘nagging’ him. They are all things that benefit him, not things for me, but it seems that if I ask it immediately annoys him but if she asks she’s just trying to help. He said that I’m always trying to ‘boss’ him whereas her requests are all relevant because they are work. I told him that asking or reminding him to do things isn’t bossy and I’m only doing the same as her but he automatically interprets my actions negatively and hers positively. In fairness he considered it and actually agreed with me. I feel like things make a lot more sense now and the whole access thing stems from the same thought process. It doesn’t make it any easier but I feel like I understand now.

Thank you. I’m actually considering this but I’m reluctant as I don’t want her to know the state our marriage is in and also don’t want to muddy the waters in terms of any action she may take. I don’t know if she would tell me anything anyway, she clearly feels no loyalty towards me.

He’s now saying that I need help with my anger issues. I’ve told him that anyone in their right mind would be fucking angry if their spouse betrayed them. He then shook his head at me and said that I have a filthy mouth. Fucking knob

How. Fucking. Dare. He.

What a condescending, insensitive, arrogant, obnoxious little man.

I'm so angry on your behalf OP.

This is part of dh’s argument and I can see what you are saying. But what I don’t know I imagine. Plus I want to understand how we got to this point so we can prevent it from happening again. I don’t know if my way is the right way but it’s how I feel.

This is a good way to look at things, thank you.

I'm sure he has done stuff that you reset him for. Have you had an emotional affair. Have you tried to buy a younger subordinate with a hair car? Have you send 300+ messages.

Fuck me. My DH (15 years together) has done some shit that I resent but I have never sought solace elsewhere. I've never emotionally invested in someone else, lied about my whereabouts ect. Resentment isn't an excuse. He's made lots of very disrespectful and damaging choices. That's on him.

I think he's a disrespectful prick. At the moment I think he's managing you. I also think he's extremely manipulative.

Thank you so much for your kind words and for sharing your experience and that of your sister. It is so difficult to know what to do. He may not sound like it but I know underneath it all my dh is a good man. I don’t know what happened to make him this person that I don’t know. I just want to understand how we got here before making a final decision.

what is the atmosphere like between two of you in front of children?

are you eating together as a family? how are you managing sharing a space with him? evenings? logistics? sharing a bedroom?

So ......he has spent the last few days raking over the past 20 years finding justification for HIS betrayal.

This process has filled him full of hubris that it is HE in fact HE who has supposedly been treated agregiously.
Poor lamb...🙄

That reads as some performance he mustered up, succeeding in putting you on the back foot.

How convenient. 🙄 The manipulative fxxker.

OP, do not allow him to play you.

It's all about him. Poor victim. Beggars belief.

Odd that he's so insistent on doing what's right. Where was this high moral tone when he was betraying his family?

I’m concerned that you’re doing therapy together. You need him gone and to get on with therapy alone. He’s been dreadful by deceiving you and continues to be dreadful for talking about your ‘anger issues’ and making you out to have some part in this, to assuage his feelings about himself.
He is not a good man, He’s a cliched bad man.

I think that Emma Thompson's character in Love Actually sums it up when she says "you've made a fool of me, and you've made the life I lead foolish, too"

It's the betrayal. My ExH did the same. Then I found he'd done it multiple times.

So the outcome of your session with the therapist was:

Asking him to do something more than once is nagging and burdensome, oh actually even just asking once is a bit of an affront really.

You must act happy with him and what he does or doesn't do at all times.

You must allow him to feel like a successful human at all times (even when he isn't doing well by you or stepping up and pulling his weight in emotional or practical ways)

You did not manage to do these things but OW did and therefore its YOUR FAULT he went all ego swoon when she was ever so grateful and impressed and happy with anything he did (I'd be happy if some blokes was offering me a flash company car for flapping my eyelashes a bit)

It's YOUR FAULT he doesn't like parts of being in a partnership of marriage and parenting, and some of those parts are a bit boring or tedious or shit

It's YOUR FAULT instead of growing up and realising marriage isn't the same as limerence and your fault that he childishly expected the false flush of nicety a new relationship (where we let shit slide and always present our best self) to continue indefinitely.

It's YOUR FAULT instead of ever discussing his difficult feelings he stored them up like resentment stamps in a book to sit a simmer about, because he can't handle you having any kind of reaction to anything he says.

It's YOUR FAULT he was helplesslessly suctioned towards the ego kibbles of another women because that women 'never argues or talks down to him'. You aren't allowed to confront, complain, discuss or argue ever because he doesn't like it. You should be grateful and compliant at all times, even when he's being a bellend.

Take away message: You brought this on yourself for being a fully functioning human being not a fucking fembot domestic appliance who's sole purpose is to please and serve him and that must never ever EVER challenge, complain, get annoyed/angry or ask for anything. He is a victim of 20 years of shit behaviour from you and it's all your fault he acted like he has, it was the only way to heal his poor little self from your decades of borderline abuse.

Fuck. Him.

How do you find deleted mssgs that have gone to deleted folder? I know you have that with emaios n pictures, but text mssgs???

Oh and he is kidding himself if he thinks that any kind of relationship with this other woman wouldn't ever have her getting pissed off with him, or annoyed, or all the normal things that happen from time to time in normal grown up relationships.

He's convinced himself he deserves subservient/submissive/pink cloud lala land from a partner and that this is a completely normal expectation.

He's invested in a fantasy and cast you as the evil queen to her kind gentle sweet hearted damsel who finds him ever so swoonsome at all times.

I wonder how long the therapist will allow his self pity victim shit show to go on. I hope they don't fall for it. The thought he be validated in his sob story and feel entitled to his behaviour off the back of it enrages me.

Well, I feared this. He succeeded in controlling and manipulating the counseling session via his crocodile tears performance — maligning and blaming you, and painting himself as the victim who just had to chase his adoring OW and make her happy. His intention today was to con the counselor and to further destabilize you so you will doubt yourself and do the pick me dance.

Truth: If he had issues through the years, he had decades to address these with you in a healthy, ethical way.

Regarding his vetoing your having access, this is more of his sidelining and shutting you down, which you say is his pattern. Your needing him to come completely clean by providing their exchanges is in no way controlling. After his cheating and subsequent lies, he is perpetuating his arrogance and misogyny by withholding that vital information that you need to have the full picture. You need to have the full picture to know what you’re forgiving or what you’re walking away from. When it comes to your healing, he, the perpetrator, doesn’t get to make demands. It’s Recovery 101.

What did the counselor have to say about his pushing back against providing transparency with the messages?

What did the counselor say about his litany of your ‘transgressions’ that he is using to justify his infidelity? I can’t believe she/he tolerated that.

As for his despicable remarks about your anger after he has betrayed and wounded you, there are no words.

My take: You are being manipulated in a big way, @PleaseVipersHelpMe. He is devious and untrustworthy. He’s a danger to your emotional health and is unconcerned about your healing from the injuries that he inflicted. In fact, he has risen up and turned the tables to demonize you to achieve victimhood status. He is also portraying OW as a pure beacon of loveliness when in reality she was helping him to humiliate you and harm you and the children. How dare he lord over you about what’s ‘right’ when he was shitting all over you to romance his junior staff.

Did you get to say anything in your joint therapy session?