My dh has been messaging a colleague. Please can I have some practical and moral support

[PleaseVipersHelpMe]

NC but been here forever. Not really sure why as he would recognise the whole thing in an instant but I need the help and I’d rather he didn’t know. Please can I ask for some support?

I’m on holiday and finally plucked to the courage to ask my dh to let me see his phone. Told him it’s because I was feeling jealous of this woman (true). He let me, but obviously didn’t realise that he has to delete his deleted messages from the recently deleted file and I found quite a lot but only up till about 3 months ago, nothing before. Him telling her that he misses her. Texting when he was away telling me how much he misses me. Telling her that she’s one of the greatest people he has ever met. That he wants her in his life. Then arranging to pick her up from her house on his mid-life crisis car that i stupidly encouraged him to treat himself to. I feel so fucking stupid.

I took screenshots of everything and send them to myself but he’s insisting that nothing happened, that she was just his friend and he’s crossed the line but no affair. I haven’t found anything in emails or what’s app either. Is there anywhere else I can check without alerting him. I have full access to bank accounts and nothing untoward there so far but we don’t have online banking for one account (I can check that when I get home).

I feel so betrayed but the fact that he’s lying to me is worse. He’s treating me like an idiot. He insinuated in the texts that he was going to get her a company car but is saying he hasn’t actually done it. Funnily enough emails seem to be missing re this. He’s clearly been deleting calls from his call log but I don’t know whew do look to find them and I’m pretty sure they will be all gone now if not before. I know he’s lying is there anywhere I can look to find evidence of this? He won’t let me have the phone without him being there now.

I know it won’t make me feel better but it will make me feel like I’ve outsmarted him a bit and I wave him to feel as on edge as I do. I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach and I’m trying to be normal for the kids but I’ve just been sick. I’m supposed to go out for fucking dinner with them all now and be normal. I‘m trying so hard to not upset the kids, they deserve better. This is horrendous. I’ve honestly told so many women on here what to do in this situation but I can’t believe this has happened to me. How could he do this. Any why does he think that shagging her is worse than lying to me? Thanks in advance for any help, and for reading ny ridiculous essay. I will respond to and replies as and when I can after dinner.

Has your husband called her and spoken to her since you found out?

If you ask him this please be very clear on what you mean by ‘called’ for example ‘called/text/whatsapped/emailed etc’ do not leave him room to lie by omission.

Thank you so much for this. For the first time I actually think I will.

Op I am sorry you are in this situation.

This concerns me. I believe reconciliation and divorce are both good and valid options. But reconciliation is only possible with a remorseful spouse. I believe you have a spouse who regrets being caught and wishes it would all go away. This is not reconciliation material.

If he didn’t have feelings for her and was just in it for the ego boost - then why does he feel it is acceptable, as a married man, to lead his employee on? Why is it acceptable to waste her time? If he does have feelings (and I believe he has feelings of lust at the very least) then why is it acceptable to waste your time and your one precious life?

Couples counselling - you need to be VERY careful here. If you fall upon a counsellor who believes in the concept of unmet needs you will leave that session more confused and angry then you are now and you will maybe look and feel unreasonable. Your husband will love it, as unmet needs means you can be the reason he betrayed you.

Unmet needs is nonsense and you need to sack any unmet needs counsellor. I do not cheat for me. I believe in honesty, commitment and integrity. My integrity matters to me. I will live with me for my entire life and it is important to me, that I like myself. I do not cheat for me. Nothing my husband does or doesn’t do can change that. He cannot make me cheat and he cannot make me remain faithful. I dont cheat for me, I am capable of cheating, I have had many opportunities to cheat, but I don’t, for me. He is my collateral damage.

Your husband has a but in his fidelity. I don’t cheat but swanning about in my fancy car with a pretty lady doesn’t count. I don’t cheat but if my wife isn’t aware it doesn’t count. I don’t cheat but if my wife and me aren’t getting on it doesn’t count. It’s rubbish.

You cannot instill integrity, honesty and commitment into someone by meeting their needs. How does a blow job every night, polishing his car every morning and cooking him breakfast every morning increase their integrity and honesty.

Your need for loyalty, honesty and commitment has not been met. How will shagging my postman (always on time - reliable and never steals my post - honest) help with your unmet needs today?

An unmet needs counsellor will do more harm then good. Marriages don’t cheat. He needs to work out why he has such poor coping mechanisms that he thought getting ego kibbles from his staff was worth sacrificing his integrity, honesty and reliability for. That wasn’t your marriage, that was him.

How to help your spouse heal from your affair -by McDonald (I think)
Shirley Glass ‘not just friends’
Cheating in a nutshell (will make you understand your vomiting and disgust - it’s a hard read in a sobering way).

You can’t get over this. There will always be a before and after. You can rugsweep which he would love you to do. But cheating causes PTSD and the traits a cheater has which allows him to cheat are not the same traits needed to reconcile.

Also cheaters are liars - trickle truth is normal. Him still having his head up his arse at this stage is normal. The longer it takes for him to admit the FULL truth and any trickle truth means you are less likely to reconcile successfully. (The car order is trickle truth). Cheaters don’t tell the truth as they have control issues. They think you don’t deserve to have the full truth to enable you to make an informed decision about your future. But they tell you ‘I am doing it to protect you’. No if tat was the case they wouldn’t have cheated. They don’t tell you so they can control the narrative and influence the outcome.

Good luck op.

Thank you. He says he hasn’t contacted her in any way since before we came away.

He has responded to a work email only today, but he showed me that as he agreed he would. He doesn’t know I can check so this was a positive sign. I do think it’s likely over for him but obviously that doesn't change the fact that it happened in the first place.

It Is likely over from his perspective.

But has he told her that? If not why hasn’t she text him? If there were ‘I miss you’ etc from him or whatever ego kibbles he was sending her way then why isn’t she wondering why he hasn’t text? Or texting him saying ‘are you okay?’.

But if they both go from ‘I miss you etc ‘ texts to absolutely nothing - to me that doesn’t make any sense. It would if he told her to stop or mentioned he had been caught.

Look after yourself op, cheaters are boringly predictable. Tedious really. And cheating causes a form of PTSD so you are your priority. And never judge a cheat by your standards and behaviour - they use a different rule book.

My god you’re an inspiringly strong woman. I am so proud of you!

OP you have a lot of internalised misogyny thinking of her as a cheap scrubber but your husband is a poor man led by his ego. Her state of mind is not your concern, obviously. But you are even looking at ways to blame yourself. What you are saying is that you'll forever have to watch him because that need for validation from younger women doesn't fade.

God, this is good.

Sorry I’m at work and not feeling too great today- another thought -

Just reread your post. He won’t take advice from the internet. I get that - he should want to read those books though. However the SI website has very good resources. It’s not Reddit.

However if he criticises you for taking internet advice just hold in your thoughts that he is a middle age man who thought it was acceptable/a good idea to fish for ego kibbles from an employee in her 30s at the expense of his wife, family and maybe even his business. He may lose a great member of staff (not a good business decision) and be sued as he is now just wanting rid of her. He was getting her a car, potentially pissing off other staff - again not a great business decision. And a few may have sussed he was cheating again not a great decision if you want respect from your staff.

His actions show he isn’t great at decision making when it comes to your marriage and you or currently his business. So maybe he should take your advice. But tbh I’d never mention SI again and use it yourself without him knowing about it. You may need it. Same as on here. You will get support night and day. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Your anger is normal. Upset is normal. Confusion is normal. Do not take the blame for this. As I said reconciliation or divorce is acceptable. But you cannot reconcile with an un remorseful, rugsweeping spouse. Reconciliation takes 2-5 YEARS. He’s fed up with your anger after 2-5 days.

Thank you so much for this. So much to unpick here.

Your husband has a but in his fidelity. I don’t cheat but swanning about in my fancy car with a pretty lady doesn’t count. I don’t cheat but if my wife isn’t aware it doesn’t count. I don’t cheat but if my wife and me aren’t getting on it doesn’t count. It’s rubbish.

This particularly resonates with me. Whether he’s sorry or not, and as you say I’m not quite sure if he actually is, he is still justifying it to himself. Until he accepts his behaviour and takes full responsibility there is nothing more I can do to save the marriage.

I agree that his behaviour to both me and now to the woman is utterly abhorrent. Whether there were feelings or not he’s been a horrible person and I definitely don’t want that in my life.

I’ve never heard of unmet needs but I can promise you that I’m not prepared to sit and listen to anyone who tries to tell me that this is my fault. I’m hoping they reinforce to him that what he has done is actually cheating. On the booking call today he said all the right things but we will see when we get our proper appointment.

This afternoon he took me to one side and said that he is sorry and he will prove himself to me. But it’s still just words. I need much more than that.

He says he hasn’t said anything to her. Most of the conversations were initiated by him, aside from the one about the ride in his dickmobile and the ones about the new car. In fairness to her she was very transparent. Plus she obviously knows that we are on holiday together so she may be thinking that I’m around too much to risk it. The email earlier was very brisk and to the point unlike her usual tone.

I wouldn’t have believed that this could cause ptsd but seeing how affected I have been by it physically has been a real shock. A week on and I’m still struggling to eat and sleep and I have a constant knot in my stomach. I am looking after myself as best as I can but I can’t deny I’m struggling. Annoyingly he has been very predictable. I thought he was better than the other middle aged saddos but unfortunately he’s just like all the rest.

Thank you for your advice.

Thank you so much for this. Today is the first day that I feel strong. It’s all still shit but I know I can do this.

I know I shouldn’t talk about her like that, it isn’t me really. I’m just hurt and lashing out and it’s difficult not to hate her too when she was at my house only a couple of weeks ago and looking me straight in the eye while knowing exactly what was going on.

I'm very aware this is all dh’s fault and I certainly haven’t at any point referred to him as a poor man. He’s a fucking pathetic knob going through a ridiculous mid-life crisis who has hurt me deeply with his actions. I hope I have made it very clear that I blame him for this.

It really is.

Thank you for this. He definitely isn’t the one to be giving advice after everything he’s done, although in fairness he didn’t have an issue with me reading up, he just didn’t want to do so himself. I will be ordering the books for me when we get home and we will see if he also wants to read them. I won’t push though.

I am using every single resource I can get my hands on and this thread had honestly kept me going at times. The internet has a bad rep but it can be a fucking great place at times. It’s helped me to understand that every bloody person that does this spouts a version of the same bullshit. That my feelings are normal and it’s acceptable to express them. And that he needs to show me how much he wants to change. He definitely needs to do better if he wants to save us. He’s still saying the words but I won’t believe it until I see some action.

Thank you so much for taking the time to post again. This is all really helpful to me.

So much great advice and you are really amazing.
I just want to add a couple of things.

Firstly, men who cheat, betray their children just as much as their wives and partners.

Secondly, from what you have written about the texts, they were very much driven by him with her perhaps massaging his ego by agreeing but not actually professing any emotions.
This reads to me that she has been very clever and that any action taken by him against her would indeed be tribunal worthy. The imbalance if he is owner, is crystal clear.
She could claim that she was humouring him as he was The Boss.
Any employment lawyer will use that angle a mile off.
This could be very expensive for the company.

Thirdly, move your remaining inheritance in an account in your name only and have him repay what you spent on the holiday as he has completely ruined it.

Please seek legal advice so that you know where you stand.
It will give you a greater sense of control.
Find a rottweiler to represent you if needs be.

I too think he reads as a 1.
He would indeed like you to STFU and get over it.

No long marriage is perfect and of course they can cover rough terrain, but trust is such a delicate animal, when it is broken, it is never truly recoverable IMO.

That doesn't mean that some people don't move on from it.

The thing to accept and NOT fight is that your relationship going forward, married or not, will be very different.
Trust has been broken so it will be a different relationship/marriage.

Don't rush into deciding what you want to do.
I think time a part would be very good for YOU as would counselling alone.

You are in your prime, you do not have to settle for his half arsed regrets, his tears which undoubtedly are for himself primarily.

Take your time to put yourself first here.
Wishing you well.

Great post@FairyMaclary

@Ponoka7 internalised misogyny my eye! OP does NOT have that, she has made it very clear that she holds her husband responsible. But this bloody woman stood in her house and looked her in the eye knowing full well what was going on with her husband. It was vile of both of them, I simply cannot fathom doing something so abhorrent or so lacking in class. I too would be calling them both a few choice names op!

A week is not very long at all, you won’t be in a good place for a long time.

Maybe speak to a solicitor on your return so you know exactly where you stand legally - I wouldn’t tell him.

Is he selling his car if it is a trigger for you? Maybe he can get a normal family car which priorities air bags and rear seat warmers for the kids and luggage space over being sporty and attractive to the ladies.

Words are cheap - he’s proved that - so you are correct in watching his actions.

Unmet needs is often ‘but we never had sex anymore’ or ‘we didn’t do date night’ or ‘you never text me nice things’. It is when the faithful spouse is told they are partially responsible for what happened. People like it as it makes the betrayed feel slightly in control. If only you had sex 7 times a week he won’t cheat. If only you didn’t peste him for sex he wouldn’t cheat. If only you had a full time job he wouldn’t cheat. If only you didn’t work so hard he wouldn’t cheat. But it’s all nonsense. His behaviour cannot be conditional on your behaviour - if it is then what happens next time you piss him off? Is it okay for you to cheat now your needs for honesty and commitment haven’t been met?
I wouldn’t recommend couples counselling yet. And if you do go I would ask if you can record the session to listen to later. At the very least make very detailed notes. If you are upset you will forget and may get bamboozled by the two of them.

If he was unhappy in any way with the marriage he had 3 decent options.

1. tell you he is unhappy with x and book counselling if he thinks it would help.
2. divorce you
3. put up and shut up.

All three are great options. None compromise his integrity or honesty.

If he says ‘I was unhappy because we didn’t laugh like we used to/have fun like we used to/shag like rabbits like we used to’ he is blaming unmet needs. And instead of fixing the hole in the roof he has poured petrol on the house and torched it to the ground. Fixing the fun/sex/laughing is the least of his worries and will be the least of his worries for a very long time (2-5 years if you reconcile) . unmet needs is nonsense. But many many counsellors will go down this path. It’s an excuse used by a cheat to justify his choices so your husband will jump on it.

The book ‘Love yourself like your life depends on it’ by Kamil Ravikant - May help you if you are struggling.

But write down your values today. Then ponder it over the next week. Every day live by those values. That will be the start of healing yourself. Use it as focus. Be proud of you, you are loyal - be loyal to YOU. You are your priority.

@FairyMaclary your posts are so interesting to read. Brilliant advice 👏

So sorry you are going through this but, OMG, you're admirable. I'm not sure if he is ever going to be able to show you how sorry he is for hurting you and betraying you because a lot of his regret is for himself. He lied partly so he didn't have to acknowledge what he has done. That's why he will minimise to your children if necessary, so they don't see him for what he is.

The OP calls his car a scrubber magnet. She did that before she knew about the affair.

@Ponoka7 oh do stop reaching. Op also said she encouraged him to buy said car as a treat to himself. She obviously did not realise that he was going to use it as a scrubber magnet. Which is exactly what he did. And make no mistake, any woman or man who can stand in the house of the wife/husband they are shafting in this manner? Scrubber is too good a word for them. It’s deceitful, massively hurtful, smug, selfish and frankly revolting. Does it make the husband in this case any less complicit or less of a shit head? Absolutely not. That doesn’t change the fact that the OW is also a duplicitous piece of shit.

Hi OP your doing great btw. Im sad to read your husband will not even look at the website "surviving infidelity ". Maybe he does/hasn't heard of emotion affairs. Perhaps if you send him the link and say it's important to you that he reads it - he may. As he has been asking what he can do. It's worth a try &tell him it may help save the marriage. Does he understand you will leave him or has the conversation not got that far yet ? Good luck

She has definitely been as clever as he has been foolish. In a perverse sort of way I hope she does take him to the cleaners. It’s nothing less than he deserves.

My inheritance is safe, and in the grand scheme of things a very small proportion of what he has contributed to the marriage. That’s actually the basis of the big argument we had. He was upset that it’s in a separate account (genuinely only done as it’s a high interest savings account) as he feels that his money is our money but mine is mine. Beforehand he’d been saying that it’s ny money and I should choose what to do with it. As I’ve told him many times, I feel the bulk of the money really belongs to the kids and my dm would approve of that. My wages are paid into our joint account in the same way his are. But it clearly upset him as it came up as the trigger for him pushing things forward with her. I felt terrible about that and really tried to make amends and prove that it wasn’t a trust issue when all the while he was behaving in a very untrustworthy manner with her.

I won’t be making any decisions just yet. He was being much nicer yesterday. I’m unsure if what I said hit home or if it’s a temporary thing but time will tell.I don’t be settling for less than I deserve.

Thank you for the excellent advice and for telling this middle aged woman that I’m in my prime!

I probably shouldn’t have called her a scrubber but I’ve definitely called dh much worse!! It’s very difficult because I will never have the opportunity to confront the woman so my anger towards her escapes in other ways. I do feel slightly bad but then I’m also very aware that she definitely didn’t feel bad when she did much worse to me.