To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

‘Do you know what- the only rude people on these threads are certainly not the parents who put their children in private schools. They provide well educated backed up, ‘

Sure. State educated here. Have more than one degree. Am by any measurement, well
educated… some of us unwashed do still manage to put together coherent POVs

This post made me smile- I might quote you in my assembly when we’re back to school in September about working hard and achieving! In my friendship group, there were those who revised, worked and didn’t go out all the time (still did but not every night!) or those who did. We chat about it now and our jobs and our pay reflect decisions that were made. I work in the public sector so my pay reflects that , like your NHS salary does. But I chose it and knew what the reward package was going to be. And no one would begrudge you for moving to private practice and putting your children first. The problem
we have is that some state schools are fantastic , but reflect the area they are in (like where Keir Starmer lives) and some are not so good. This is what we should be tackling but it’s a social mobility problem that’s deep rooted. No matter how much school fees goes up, you can’t change certain catchment areas of schools for state schools.

I was also state educated, I work in education now and behind closed doors I worked non stop to get my grades. Then my degree nearly pushed me over the edge - economics at a Russell group university. I had to really really try. I think it’s ok to not pretend we all
work hard all the time - some do and some don’t and we make choices about where we work and the reward we get for it.

My parents sacrificed a huge amount to send my sibling and me to private school. I remember my mum’s sadness when the families in our road stopped talking to us when they learnt of my parents’ choice to educate us privately. We lived in a leafy London suburb. We weren’t bothered at all that they chose state education for their children, all had two cars and two foreign holidays a year whilst we drove a beaten-up old Volvo and went to Cornwall for holidays, why should their choices concern us? Why did ours concern them?

I became aware of people’s attitudes to private education from a young age. I was spat at on my way home by kids from the local school because the uniform I wore gave away my ‘privilege’. Kids from the local schools called me a lesbian because I went to an all girl’s (weekly) boarding school in my teens after my mum died. I could go on. It wasn’t private school or my upbringing that taught me I was 'better' than those who were jealous / angry / bitter / hateful, it was them. However, I wouldn’t change a thing about my journey, I’m resilient and strong, confident and happy.

I’m ‘lucky’. My DC are ‘lucky’ and will be privately educated, whatever lucky means. This thread like so many others seems to attract angry people who resent those that have more money than them, or those who choose to prioritise education above anything else, putting it down to ‘luck’. It isn’t luck but I won’t bother trying to explain that on here, those who know, know.

It’s so ironic that all those posters who find time in their busy schedules to come on here and denigrate families who just want the best for their children are desperate for us to believe that it’s private school parents who are the problem. I was taught to be humble and act with grace, to be grateful for my education but not to let it define me and to treat everyone the same regardless of where they went to school or how much money their family had. Sadly, it appears that isn’t the case at every establishment, some posters on here should be ashamed of themselves.

To those who are revelling in the potential changes ahead, stay in your lane and focus on your own family and the decisions you make and please, try and let go of your anger. Believe me when I say that parents who privately educate their children don’t give you a second thought, but wish you well, wherever your children go to school.

Why not add VAT to Piano,football and art lessons outside of school.

Are you referring to my posts?

I'm so sorry if I upset anyone. That was never my intention. I'm just trying to keep my kid alive. That's my only agenda.

I haven’t read your posts @ByWarmShark but I am also certain they do not warrant that level of venom.

Celebrate the inevitable job losses of teachers, ta’s, office staff etc from the small private schools that will collapse? Unbelievable.

You sound nice, what a valuable contribution to the thread 😂

As a teacher I worked significantly harder, longer hours, longer terms and with much more stress than any of my friends.

20 years later, without fail they all earn way more than me.

It's not as easy as some seem to think it is to categorise people who worked hard with those who have children in private school.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you that all children deserve high quality schooling, of course they do. However
there is no evidence that this policy will do anything but push a few borderline parents, who may or may not have children with SEN, into state schools. Any financial benefit will likely be wiped out from the cost of educating the ones who do move, abd even the most positive projections are that it will increase state school funding by half a percent of total budget. As if that will make any significant change, even if the issue was purely budgets.

My main issue with this policy is that it is billed as being the saviour of state schools, which it definitely is not. And all the time the focus is on an ineffective policy, it is not on the real root causes of failing schools, which so often is poor leadership and poor parental engagement (which link to each other). All this smoke and mirrors will fail our children.

‘. I remember my mum’s sadness when the families in our road stopped talking to us when they learnt of my parents’ choice to educate us privately. We lived in a leafy London suburb.’

ah of course, the big ostracism of ‘89, I think I remember reading about that in the press at the time… and still, parents bravely carry on sending their children to private schools, undeterred by the consequences…

Good news for those staff - there are quite literally thousands of other schools in the country looking for all sorts of teachers, support staff, arts staff, etc
AND those schools are still in the Teachers Pension Scheme

I think you have some insecurities about your choice of school. ‘We could afford private but chose not to’.

If you were truly happy with your school, you would not be orgasming about this introduction of VAT. You would be getting on with your day and not creating pointless threads. You are hoping that private school parents will help your school in a way you have not been able to. Which is a bit odd really.

FWIW I saw you post gleefully about England not winning the football on a previous different thread btw. Which is fine of course. But you seems to get your kicks through schadenfreude. I am older than you I am sure and have worked in MH so wanted to give you some unsolicited advice.

I promise you that taking pleasure in others’ problems, will bring you short-term joy only.
I would look further into your own life and try and create more happiness there, which may be lacking. Rather than spitefully revelling in the disappointment of other people.

Oh if only it were that simple for teachers over 50 in none shortage subjects to pick up a new teaching post just like that.

Everyone likes to think they work hard but the truth is that, historically, they probably haven’t actually worked as hard as they think. My childhood friends and I went to a very crappy, inner city comp. Some studied a little, some a lot and some extremely hard and I would say our success now reflects the work we put in as children. I grew up in a family of 5 in a 2 bed flat on the 15th floor of a tower block in south east London - I was desperate to escape poverty and missed parties, shopping, boyfriends and so much more to study. I had nowhere to study - we shared bedrooms and the living room was used as a bedroom - so I would sit with a duvet on the kitchen floor in the middle of the night doing test GCSE papers. I aced every single GCSE and A-Level paper I sat because I worked hard. My friends all know this but yet still tell me how lucky I am to have landed my very well paying job in the City - it might have been partly luck but there was a whole load more hard work involved than luck. I remember regularly pulling all nighters in my mid 20s and sleeping under my desk at work while my friends were clubbing. Some of those friends are now teachers and nurses and, yes, they work hard now but, historically, they have not worked anywhere near as hard as I did. I am now in the enviable position of being able to pay for my disabled child to attend a private school but apparently I am paying for a benefit that I haven’t work hard enough for.

@Sherrystrull I don't doubt you worked hard and had stress but for all that, could you say that it was for example comparable to the stress my father put himself when he worked running a business that manufacturing something that people use everyday (so needed to work perfectly for everyone always) travelling to over 40 different offices internationally per year to satisfy oversees markets doing the same thing, responsible for a business that employed thousands of people providing them with jobs, pensions and stable working conditions, making sure that it grew so yes it satisfied shareholders but could also give customer satisfaction at better prices as technology improved as opposed to pass those costs on..... I could go on.

And yes, he was paid substantially for it and my DS and myself have benefited from things like private education. We also moved a lot as his career developed and had to deal as a family when there were bumps in the road (which there were). However, DS and I also learned how to strive and get out our comfort zone to be successful in our careers. How to push ourselves and that is one of the reasons why DH and I chose private school for our kids. It matches our ethos. State schools are fine but because of underfunding they leave the kids that are "fine" to just be "fine". Sorry, I want more and I can pay for more. This policy this is just politics of envy where everyone has to be the same cos it's not fair. You do what my dad did. Or what I do or my sister does. We should be able to use the wealth we earn to buy the things we want but the joyous thing about policies like this is as I have said before my kids don't need to associate with people like @DinnaeFashYersel and for that I will make sure I pay my invoices with a big fat smile.

Teachers yes, but TA posts are really hard to come by. My daughters school gets 50+ applications for every TA job advertised, as with the cost of childcare, a school hours term time only post which doesn't need formal qualifications is the holy grail, a friend of mine with lots of experience has gone for these posts many times without success. Most primary schools only need 1 receptionist, 1 caretaker etc, so even if they get more pupils there won't be more jobs.
My Dads friend is a caretaker in a private school, which was struggling but now going under with the new VAT. So at 63 he will be both homeless and jobless as his job came with a small house in the school grounds. Unlikely to get another job at that age, will probably start claiming UC, need council housing etc.
I'm sure there will be 'well other people have to pay for their house so he can too' comments, full of empathy and compassion. But how anyone can take joy in another's suffering, is beyond my (state educated) comprehension.

Simply don't believe you!

There are many people who could afford private education but choose not to do so.

So why don't I believe you're one of them?

The tone of your post, rubbing your hands and thighs in gleeful delight, shows that it is powered by your green eyed friend, jealousy.

If you could afford it, you wouldn't be so nakedly joyful at others not being able to do so. You can't have something so you're delighted that others will be in the same boat.

Jealousy is almost always transparent as you you obviously demonstrate.

Naturally, you'll deny this but you may as well save your breath because very rarely in this world does a liar admit they've lied-in fact they usually double down on it and I imagine you will be true to type.

If you take two similar people in pretty similar circumstances with similar privileges, then the one who is super hard-working and focused could well end up being more successful.

My kids have had the same upbringing and privileges. But the one who works harder has ended up doing ‘better’. They can all see it and don’t resent it. So of course sometimes working harder can yield well-deserved rewards.

‘There are many people who could afford private education but choose not to do so.

So why don't I believe you're one of them?’

presumably because I have a differing POV to you on private schools. That would be my guess.

Yes. The naked spite is telling now.

As you say, many don’t choose or want private and are not remotely jealous or resentful. But the OP is dripping with envy and bitterness.

And so the mean-spirited posts of an unhappy person continue…

Does this kind of posting style make you happy? Is this who you want to be?

I actually don't think there are that many who could afford private education and choose not to. Maybe in London, but even then if you have enough money to afford a private London day school you probably would.

Private education at secondary level costs around 36k a year and that's after tax for one child. If you have two dcs and 72k a year spare you are probably an extremely high earner and want the wrap around care, long holidays and expertise.

My husband and I were state educated, we also state educate our eldest. (Although it’s specialist as he has additional needs.)
We decided however, to send our youngest to an independent after her state primary didn’t meet her needs. She joined our family by adoption and struggles with severe attachment issues. We found that the pupil premium that she was entitled to, she wasn’t benefiting at all from, it was used for TA 1:1 specifically for other children and not even the whole class or school, and she was left to deal with her severe anxiety and emotional issues on her own. We fought for years, I am used to advocating for my children and thanks to my experience in adopting and DS’ EHCP I’m used to fighting for them. But it was like banging my head against a wall. Then one day she came home from school with bleeding feet from PE. She didn’t trust anyone enough to tell a member of staff. She had suffered all afternoon until she got home and I could see immediately that she was hobbling, that’s when we realised that we were failing her and the situation would not get better.
We sent her to independent last year and she has absolutely blossomed. It’s been the best move for her. It’s taken a lot of sacrifice but it’s worth it and we are just going to have to pay the additional whatever it is, even though I don’t think it’s entirely fair. If we were to send her back to state, it would cost the state the amount of her pupil premium as well as the cost of her state school place. Pupil premium is a huge expense.
I understand that we are incredibly fortunate to have the choice. I’m posting this just to remind people that not everyone (if anyone) sends their child or children to an independent because of snobbery or to be elitist. There are other reasons why we make these choices.
I fear that this is going to widen the gap and make independent schools more elitist though. I just hope that any revenue generated from this policy, is used for education and that this doesn’t make matters in the state sector worse. Why have they not promised to ring fence it? I suspect it’s because that some if not all of the revenue will be spent elsewhere.