To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

Ditto the 'extra funding' that state schools will get when former private school pupils are added to their roll calls.

It always amuses me when people think that they meanie government will be forced to handover more cash without stopping to consider where is extra cash will come from.

I don't think you really understand how the vat system works.. yes absolutely you claim back against your expenses for the vat you pay but unless the funds come in to pay for the said work to be carried out no school with lower their fees in order to absorb the vat cost permanently. You realise they will need to pay for the building work so if they are lowering their fees not sure how you think all this building work will actually get paid for. Maybe some fees will be lowered for a short time but this won't be viable in the long run and over time I'm sure your fees will go back up.

Yes you could afford a small local private school for 1 child on £70k, depending on your other costs.
My parents managed it on 35k for my brother whose needs weren't being met in state, his fees were 6k. Although this was 10 years ago, the principle is the same if you double both.

The point is that those which were already planning building work will now be able to reclaim the VAT so the overall cost is lower than budgeted. It’s pretty common for private schools to have ongoing building improvement plans.

The VAT on school fees is aimed squarely at the middle classes. For some reason they aren't bothered about the people who are rich enough to have two at dds school and two boys at Eton and who are rolling their eyes at the VAT but will easily pay it. No increase in income tax for them.

The great thing about the delay in bringing in the change is that we'll have better data on volumes and locations of migration from private to state, so the Labour Party can do some analysis on what that means for the policy revenue and also whether state schools can handle the extra students.

One of the big risks with this policy is that nobody really knows what the consequences will be. There have been plenty of threads on here with people disagreeing about what will happen!

Whilst some of the changes will take longer to work through (eg house prices and people working fewer hours/retiring earlier), September will give really useful, concrete data on how the policy will change behaviour at the normal entry points (YR, Y7, Y12) which can be extrapolated to understand what the impact will be in 7 years. That's what matters in terms of how much the tax raises: choices at natural entry points, rather than this anomalous initial period where people don't want to disrupt education part-way.

September will also give a much better understanding of how it will play out in different locations - since it won't be evenly spread through the country.

I just really hope the Labour Party does actually analyse that data, and feed it into their decision-making!

I'm hoping it doesn't happen.

My income from FT work is so low, it is topped up by UC. My family is working class. My kids have been on FSM in the past.

Yet, one of my DC is going to a private school. We have a 10% scholarship, and every year I will apply for reduced fees (up to 30%) based on my income. The latter is not guaranteed.

The school only offers small scholarships and bursaries, as they aim to assist as many children as possible, not just 1 or 2.

The fees are nothing like the famous big name private schools (Eton £46k pa for full boarding). This day school is £14.5k pa for full fees.

I am going to struggle to pay the discounted fees, but it will be worth it. DC has SpLD and this school has great provision.

If VAT is put on fees, I will still try to keep DC in that school, but it will mean fewer essentials. As it is I'm scratching around trying to cobble together enough secondhand uniform. One of my other DC, who had an horrendous secondary school experience, has told me they are committed to finding part-time work (on top of their busy timetable) so they can help pay for groceries and bills.

I'm hoping I won't need to accept- I'd much prefer DC to keep all their earnings. DC tells me they see it as contributing to/supporting each other.

To make it clear, UC will not be used to pay the fees. Although taking the money from CM means less in my overall budget for food/bills/clothing. I am trying to get more work, but that affects childcare. Having said that, I won't have to pay for wrap around childcare any more (it's included), so I will put that towards the fees. My ex is going to contribute some of the fees and he will be fine with any increase. However, increases will make things harder for the rest of us (inc the children he no longer supports).

Everyone does have the same options, why did you not manage to achieve a good enough income to be able to afford this?

@Ohthatsjustalotofeffort

"Yes why are we obsessed as a country about punching below?"

Because left wing politics has been changing from trying create greater equality in society by helping the less well off, to create greater equality but by bringing the better off down.

It's a fundamental difference.

Absolutely this, why to we have to pull some people down for others to rise up.
And the comments that lower income parents need middle income parents to come in for their schools to improve, implying that there parents don't have the desire or ability to do so themselves, it's incredibly patronising, and also fails to explore the true reasons for schools struggling.

Our infant school - mind blowingly amazing facilities staff and ethos, outstanding ofsted. Our junior school (same children and parents), not brilliant, requires improvement ofsted. Same families, different leadership. Middle income families are filling the gap on this by paying for tutoring, lower income ones are not able so gap widens. No amount of ex private school families coming in will change this, they will just pay for tutoring too.

The single biggest factor in a schools achievement is their leadership - look at the Micheala school - challenging catchment, amazing results due to strong child focused leadership.

Yes 🙌 I think the poster @Redhil was the one who didn’t understand how it worked not the other one. In an article has come out today in the times saying with the ability to take the VAT off and reclaim some private schools will in fact be better off.

What a lovely sentiment.

I didn't vote for Brexit and still can't believe the leave vote won.

I have no idea of your political proclivities but that statement entirely encapsulates the bitter single mindedness of so many out there who are determined to 'get the rich' without a) fully understanding who the 'rich' are and b) the foresight to see that this will have no impact at all on the truly rich - as one of the earlier commentators on this thread said, it will only serve to make the gap between the truly rich and everyone else even wider.

My understanding of left wing politics was that it was about the greater good of society as a whole, not a vitriolic attack on anyone who is perceived to have 'more' without any consideration of the consequences.

It makes me sad to know that the level of bitterness exists towards our children of all things in Britain today.

@Sherrystrull

"How awful are DH and I for prioritising a roof over our heads and food in our mouths over private schooling.

Most people don't have the ability to choose private schooling. If I chose to send my DC to private school we wouldn't be able to live in our basic house with our basic car. "

It's not about prioritisation it's about what products or services people can or cannot afford. I would also prioritise a roof over our heads and food in our mouths over private schooling. I would try and supplement this with my time spent with DC to help them with their studies.

However if I could afford a new fancy car or a fancy holiday then I would much prefer to spend the money on my DC education.

Perfectly said. My self and my husband were state school educated from working class backgrounds. I was bright but not gifted at all , and managed to work incredibly hard and get a degree from a Russell group university oh then both of us work unsociable hours, often abroad and earn the money we make. My friends messed around at school, now in ok jobs but work standard hours and no they can’t afford certain things and nor do they think they should have them. What’s wrong with trying hard and getting rewarded for it - oh and the stress and responsibility with high paid jobs is reflected in the pay.

@Mammyofonlyone

"It makes me sad to know that the level of bitterness exists towards our children of all things in Britain today."

Which in turn creates a more divided and angry society.

I couldn't agree more. All children matter. The bitterness towards children who go to private school and the derogatory way people have spoken about children in state school are equally unacceptable.

I didn't vote for brexit. I think it was a terrible idea. I think everyone attacking other people, you are all basically the same - you think you are different and the opposite to the people you are attacking, but you're not, you're all basically the same.

@Onetwothreefourfiveonce

What’s wrong with trying hard and getting rewarded for it - oh and the stress and responsibility with high paid jobs is reflected in the pay."

Now imagine a 90% income tax was introduced on the highest earners as is being proposed in France.

Would you continue with the stress, hours and responsibilities of your job but only take home 10% of your salary or would you seek to reduce your hours or try to retire as soon as possible?

The stress and responsibility with high paid jobs is reflected in the pay.

What about nurses? They have more stress and responsibility than most. Where is that reflected in their pay. Or should they be penalised because they have a less mercenary approach to the job they chose than others?

@Onetwothreefourfiveonce

Yes exactly my point earlier😀

And if it turns out that it doesn't change people's behaviour and there is no drop in the proportion of kids going to private school in YR, Y7 and Y12 - and so it will raise the full £1.6bn in revenue, and state schools won't be harmed, and kids with SEN will continue to be supported - then that will be amazing, and we can all give a sigh of relief.

Can you see that happening here.

And feel very silly about all the brouhaha you have all kicked up around how awful it will be?

Sorry I've not read about this. I think it depends on a what level the 90% tax rate is invoked.

For example, €80,000 'because it's about double the national average and you are therefore rich so deserve it' in the real world is very different from at, say €500,000 where you can send as many children as you like to private school, live in a €2m home and holiday at will.

Maybe, just maybe, the less well off of us are happy to see this sort of thing being enacted because after years of watching the richer folk repeatedly vote in a party that just benefits those like themselves, there's a sweet poetic justice in watching them take a hit for once.

I couldn't care less how bitter the private schoolers are, you're probably still going to be a lot more comfortable than those you voted to screw over for years.