To think this is scandalous yet in plain sight because the patriarchy has no shame

[Webjisroommate]

A year ago I separated from my DD’s father and she was in the middle of her first year of nursery. He paid the cms amount every month, without fail. This was 360 a month, even though I was left to pay over 1,300 on nursery fees alone. Obviously the situation has now changed slightly with the hours but his 360 contribution is quite literally nowhere near half her costs. I have spoken about this with other mum friends and have learned that 360 is actually pretty fortunate! Some women are being paid less than 200 and others have to chase cms when their ex is self employed. I was not aware of any of this before having Dd.

My career is now hugely clipped as I am doing 95% of childcare while ex sees her a day a week… the day I use mostly to clean and get the house in order to start the week again. And yes, I suggested 50/50, he didn’t want that.

I honestly feel like this is a huge joke player on women in plain sight while nothing is actually done about it?! I also can’t fathom how HMRC can chase tax from the self employed but Cms can’t chase these men to pay for their children. It’s a disgrace. Why is this allowed to happen?!

Unpopular opinion. If I want to buy a car, I have £15k in the bank before I buy a car. If I want a child, I'd have at least a calculated sum to get them to say 7 years old. This goes for both the man and woman. I personally think it's irresponsible any other way. I'd you don't do this, and something unforseen happens, your child suffers.

Stupid idea... we already have a problem with falling birth rates. What would that sum be? DD cost us around £50k in her first 7 years when factoring in childcare and a nominal £200 on 'expenses'.

What about accidental pregnancies?

OP, it's a crap system - the only way round it I could see though is more 50:50 custody arrangements where each parent is responsible for the childcare/other costs in their half and schools expenses are cut down the middle. The problem is that feckless parents will remain feckless parents and the children would suffer in that arrangement.

Yes, my ex husband even thought it was a good idea to tell his daughter that he never wanted children. A daughter that is suffering from the effects of his behaviour to this day.

They are disgusting

We live in a male orientated society

Pmsl oh boy you HAVE to be on a mission to cause a bit of drama or you are just being twatty

either way - when my husband of 11 years left me it was a bit late to terminate my 8 and 6 year old and 4 month old 🙄

I have been in this situation the last two years OP and it’s an absolute disgrace. I feel like nobody listens when it’s highlighted. Just enraging. All my savings have gone on financing maternity leave and nursery fees. The system is a joke.
My only advice is to make sure you have a government childcare account to pay your fees as that will help a little. Take care and know you’re not alone.

So only rich people can have children? Wow. That’s some take 🙄

I agree with this but I think if the father can't/won't pay this then it should be paid by the government and the father owes the money as a debt, accruing interest, for however long it takes to repay it.

It will never happen because people will feel bad men at having to pay so much and find loads of reasons why it's the woman's fault and the man shouldn't have to pay that much.

@OceanStorm

bit tricky when they're 2,4,6

'Willy nilly' yeah that whole being together years, getting married, having a family....it's just so 'spur of the moment' 🙄🙄🙄

@OceanStorm what are you on about??

@k1233 I agree with this.

My exh (of 13 years) artificially keeps his self-employed salary low and also because his latest live in girlfriend also has 3 children, he gets a reduction meaning he is expected to pay a whopping £53 a month for our 3 children.

When he pays…

I could tolerate this if he contributed in other ways but he doesn’t even see the kids. The system makes it too easy for men to avoid responsibility

Massive sympathy OP. I think they need to rethink the whole child maintenance thing. Unless the child is adopted or taken into care an absent parent should always be liable for half the minimum reasonable cost of raising that child (more if their income level is higher).

There should be no more option for the absent parent to claim to be broke or to meet another partner and choose not to work. If they are genuinely unable to pay they should apply for a special government benefit to cover the cost with all the scrutiny that implies (partners income and savings taken into account).

If they refuse to pay then the government should pay on their behalf and collect the money as it would any other debt.

I can't understand how we accept this situation as a society. In a lot of cases taxpayers are stepping into pay basic living costs not for orphans or children whose parents are sick or disabled but children where one of their parents just can't be bothered.

Absolutely, I’ve said that here before, CMS should have teeth.

Do you know OP, I completely agree. I cannot understand why we don’t have a model like the USA where there are direct consequences of non payment. We talk about child poverty and how terrible it is that services have been cut to the bone but a new system which made men pay would have a massive impact on the financial wellbeing of women who are left shouldering all responsibility for a child. People talk about women trapping men with babies but it’s men who trap women in poverty when they decide that the consequences of their actions are not worth sticking around for.

It's not just men though is it?
My stepson was left by his fiance with their 3 under 5s - she just upped and left and refuses to have the kids alone. He's left with 3 fairly traumatised children, had to quit his job as they wouldn't go to childcare without screaming the place down, she doesn't pay a penny.ALL parents should be responsible for at least 50% of time with their children or footing the bill for it.

How on Earth are you determining when you will get pregnant in this scenario? Even whether you get pregnant is wildly unpredictable, let alone when.

Bit late if you divorce when children are already born or are you suggesting that if a mother can’t afford to look after her children on £360 per month then she can just get rid of them?

This is pretty much the nub of it.

And do not talk to me about poor men not having a choice. Men can wear condoms and they need to realise that sex is an act with serious implications not a harmless leisure activity.

Anyway who should pay? The father or some random people on the street.

My understanding is that child maintenance is so unreliable it currently isn't taken into account when calculating benefits. So we are literally all subsiding these feckless absent parents.

Yes obviously the sex is irrelevant and all absent parents should pay up. People are just saying men because they are in the majority here.

I was married for 10 years. 2 DC. Divorced now 5 years and ExH does not pay a single penny! My children are 12 and 15 and I work full time but it's a struggle. He works as a self employed builder but nothing goes through the books so CMS calculate he owes me £14 per week. He won't pay that, I've moved to collect and pay via CMS, still nothing. The whole system is a joke.

I've proposed something along these lines before. CMS should be part of HMRC for a start and properly funded. Non payment below X amount should be gathered as debt to the non payer and ultimately taken off state pension if it's never paid. The resident parent should get the funds from the state to whom the debt is then owed. But there is zero interest at a government level to do anything about this ..it's in the "too hard" pile, plus it flies in the face of the comfortable narrative of feckless women having kids "willy nilly", trapping poor men with their evil wiles. Something like 97% of single parents are female. Most of us would love 50/50 care or something far closer to that then 4/30 nights a month but the father doesnt want it. Often they have walked out on the family because of the drudge of childcare so they're unlikely to ask for it. There will always be exceptions but the stats are clear.

I find the set up in the UK is absolutely ridiculous. The amount you get is tiny compared to other countries. Also, there is literally no punishment for not paying child support. In other countries you can, for example, lose your driver's licence or would not be allowed to leave the country if you have a huge CSA debt.

Also, what pisses me off - CSA never know anything. They never know how much your ex earns, where he works - unless you tell them. They don't seem to have access to HRMC or any other databases (property ownership, election rolls etc), like similar agencies in the US have, for example. They never have in person meetings and you never get the same person to talk to. I mean, they do make things happen, but it takes forever.

I really feel for you, OP. I also had a massive hit financially because of being a single parent, and even though my ex pays what he is told, its still a drop in the ocean. And every time I ask for help with something child related, I get the same answer - "I'm paying child support, that should cover it"...

And yet they still have them with a large amount actively agreeing to have them.

There's an automatic responsibility of sperm meeting egg after sex (contraception used or not) put upon woman, as they are the ones who physically produce the baby. This lack of responsibility of men for pregnancy leads to a belief men do not have choice about pregnancy and so shouldn't be held accountable. Meaning we live in a society that believes men don't really want children (even if they agreed to having them) and therefore have the right to walk away at any point in that child's life.

If the responsibility of pregnancy was put upon allowing the chance for sperm to meet egg, in other words by having sex, then we would live in a society that believed both men and women are equally accountable for the child's life. Also if we did live in that society in which when a man fathered a child and was 50% responsible - financially and logistically - that would be the deterrent for people having children "willy nilly".

I got about £15 for two children, because we have 50:50 in the court order. He doesn't see one and sees the other for a few hours when it suits. He works part time in min wage job for absolutely no reason other than "he gives me enough of his money".