Why didn't I realise how awful teenager years were going to be

[F11]

First dd is a dream, autistic, funny, interesting, no drama.

Dd2 is horrible, rude, she was the loveliest child, an absolute dream, she has turned into this horrible person and I end up sitting in the car miles away crying all the time

I admire your honesty. I find my teenage dd difficult too. She is so hostile and looks at me with contempt. As mothers we are the safe space , so they are brutal to us at times. She is very horrible to her brother, too. I tell her perhaps we should speak to her as she speaks to him .

I second that your dd may too be neurodivergent. I suspect the eating disorder may be due to her feeling the need to have control, rather than thinness related.

I have a difficult teen too. Any attempt to show affection is seen as 'fake'. I would love to give him a pat or small sign of affection, but he would be repulsed by the 'fakeness'.

sounds like an amalgamation of a bunch of kids I know around that age are all receiving diagnosis of autism and ADHD, absolutely classic. Be a little bit careful with CAMHS as some people have really shit experiences with them. You must be familiar with Naomi Fisher? I would be looking heavily at low demand parenting and see if you can get some direct advice from the eating disorders team at your local hospital, there must be one. If there isn’t or they can’t help you then I’d be looking at trying to get specialist advice from charities or whatever. she’s going through a stressful time in her life, she’s going to be unable to contain herself around you because she’s keeping it together everywhere else, you know this. Don’t take it personally. She’s clearly not ok and she will come back to you, just need to navigate through this

If you chose to tell dd2 how you truly feel about her behavior, you need to understand that if you use harsh, unproductive words/feedback, keep in mind that it may backfire.

I do not believe that it is a parents job/role to tell their kids they are awful, even if they are being so. As the adult, it is imperative to model healthy communication. Imperative. No matter how difficult it gets.

You may want to look into Dr Justin Coulson, PhD from Australia… he’s brilliant with this stuff!

Actually it does.

It’s the ED that’s the problem, eating should solve the problem, being the safe place for your child and allowing them to use you to throw out all their complex feelings is your job. Yes you have to say that your not happy you have to try and put boundaries in place but venting their feelings is better than keeping them inside and using food to punish themselves.

the book “the year I didn’t eat” shows a great example of how an Eating Disorder takes over a whole household and even how it affects friendships.

peol with eating disorders don’t think they are worthwhile caring for. They rail against anyone who cares for them so they will leave them alone. Losing your shit over the extreme behaviour just makes them believe they are a piece of crap.

EDs are shitty

Literally like the old skit “Kevin and Perry”
”I hate you!!!!” To his mum
but “ Hello Mrs Patterson!”
to Perry’s mum
😂

My daughter was so horrible to me I was convinced she hated me. It was awful. Essentially everything I did, said, believed, wore, ate was shit. I was a shit person. Now she's grown up, delightful and we get on really well.

Why would you pussy foot around her? Maybe that’s why you’re in this position. You need to let her know that her behaviour is unacceptable.

OP it sounds like your DD is on the spectrum too. Just because it doesn't show in the way it did with DD1 doesn't mean to say it's not for DD2.

The restrictive eating, the isolating herself, it's very much a pattern there of autistic teenage girls.

I would break down in front of her. She needs to see you have emotions too and that you can be broken too.

She needs to see the impact of her behaviour on you. You are not your DM and your relationship with your DD is not the same. You are absolutely allowed to make this a little bit about you, some of the time. Not all of the time of course.But some of the time yes. it's important that you show her you're human and you have boundaries too.

Also, do you tell her you love her? Do you share with her the mistakes you've made?

She may also have AFRID which is often linked to ASD and means she finds textures, smells and colours hard in foods and she may have found food difficult all her life. Just allow her to get on with what she can eat and don't judge her harshly for what she can't or won't. Often it's not a choice for them, it's just how things are and there is sensory overload which makes eating what normal people eat, very difficult.

I would definitely be seeking an ASD diagnosis. She sounds like she's got very big self-esteem issues and you need to remind her every day what a great person she is, how much you love her, how you'll always be there for her and how you believe in her. The chances are she doesn't believe in herself very much and thinks she's a loser and that's where a lot of this comes from. Teenage girls, particularly these days are so very very fragile.

Find some podcasts about self-esteem and coaching and listen to them yourself. It will help guide you about how to bolster her self-esteem.

And just give her money to go and buy what she wants.

Thank you. I wish you and your ds well too. My DD’s BP was 52-54 down from 62 at Easter (when her friends fed her up after a 4/4.5kg loss in 2 weeks). She’s doing ok now. But as you say, a long road ahead.

Idk what you mean by Nat 5 age btw.

I was a horrible teen. But my mother was both overbearingly authoritative and couldn’t have given a shit about getting to know me as an emerging adult or showing any interest in my life. I was angry and lonely. I rejected every single one of her attempts at mothering either loving or boundaries because to me she had forfeited the right because of what I saw at the time as abandonment.

So many people on these boards talk about ‘teens’ like some Kevin and Perry stereotype that needs to be stomped on but they forget to love them and treat them as human beings. Yes, dumb, immature, irrational and over emotional at times but still your kids. Love and nurture them as much as you did when they were toddlers.

OP- ask the school nurse to make a referral to the eating disorder service- their waiting lists are much shorter than the wait for CAMHS and you will feel as though you are doing something in the meantime.

No advice on the vitriol- Eldest had periods of vile behaviour from 13 onwards and is still difficult to be around as an adult. Youngest is the polar opposite. Some of it really is down to personality.

You poor thing. Sounds horrible and upsetting. How old is she and what is her social media use like? I’ve heard of teenage girls who’ve come off social media and been much happier as a result

If she’s restricting, I have been told by CAHMS people can’t be diagnosed until nutritionally replete as the readings will be false. But I totally agree this sounds like potential ASD. I thought my dd had ARFID in the beginning. I have now learned that lots of people with ASD and diagnosed with anorexia also have issues with textures and restrictions around what foods they will eat. I have never fed dd foods she won’t eat as she would have fought to the death against me. ARFID is treatable more simply. Anorexia is a mental illness. My dd didn’t set out to lose weight. But she enjoyed the positive feelings she got from weight loss and then wanted to continue losing weight even when it is clear to everyone that she’s severely malnourished.

She used to eat everything, this is why I'm not sure about the asd stuff. She loved cooking too and trying new recipes.

Exactly, which is why going out an ED thread would be useful. Now that dd is eating more, her ED therapist is starting to address the attitude to me. On 400-500 calories, there was no chance. And losing your shit is exactly what an ED wants because while you’re losing your shit, it’s winning, drawing the sufferer further into their shell.

This is tough. She will come back to you.
I'm inclined to think there's been some sort of social media issue, some of it really is toxic, especially for young girls.
CAMHS is a good step, they will help. There's also almost certainly a local support group, but I don't know if she'll engage. In the meantime, let her eat what she wants without comment.
It's heartbreaking, but it's almost certainly very temporary. Just try to be strong and make sure that you take time out to look after yourself.
💐

F11 · Today 16:42
I try to encourage her to see friends and she does have them, she's told me she doesn't reply to their messages for two weeks so not sure how long she will keep them which is sad

This and your comment about her isolating herself is making me think that this may not just be teenage crap.
I cannot advise, I adopted my son when he was 13, and it was a whole different story, but I think your daughter sounds unwell.

I really don't think I've been a shit parent. But I guess everyone thinks they've done their best.

I have told her I love her and I'm hear for her and I won't judge if she wants to talk etc etc
We had a weekend away recently with family and she kept taking selfies of me and her, it sort of made me think she must like me deep down

Tbh whether or not she is ND or not is irrelevant atm. She may need to be treated as though she does right now.

How much is she eating in a day? Calories I mean and does this include protein, carbs and fats.

Thank you

You know what? That's great. Deep down she knows.
She knows you love her, even though she's in turmoil. That's very positive. Help with the ED will make a difference.
You've not been a bad parent.

@F11 I noticed you said she's restricting food.
My dd did this and was diagnosed with anorexia by CAMHS. Obviously I'm not saying your dd has anorexia but it turned my dd into another person, the pure venom that came out of her mouth but it helped to know it was the ED talking and not her.
She's 16 now and in recovery and on the whole a much nicer person

How much is she eating in a day? Calories I mean and does this include protein, carbs and fats.

Secret breakfast that I'm not allowed to see, seems to involve a couple of slices of banana and apple (literally a couple) egg and yoghurt and porridge possibly

Lunch - doesn't happen often

Dinner- usually eats meal with us but it has to be at a certain time (6pm ish) and is what she has chosen. She will eat a pie and chips or enchiladas and eats a full meal usually perhaps a bit smaller than ours