Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

'Upward' bullying. Is it possible?

104 replies

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 12/07/2024 17:05

I think I'm being upwardly bullied by someone I manage. Do I need a head shake?
Can't say too much as its outing.
Has anyone else experienced upward bullying?

OP posts:
Polyethyl · 12/07/2024 17:07

Yes, I've seen it happen. Rare but can happen

Yerroblemom1923 · 12/07/2024 17:08

What even is it?!

devildeepbluesea · 12/07/2024 17:10

I’ve seen it loads, and its
definitely not rare in my experience. But i do work in HR so know what to look for.

gavisconismyfriend · 12/07/2024 17:10

i can see how this could happen. Very difficult to manage I imagine. Can HR help?

SewingBees · 12/07/2024 17:12

Yes it happens.

Blackcats7 · 12/07/2024 17:14

Yes. Happened to me. The man in question was an ex union rep who exploited every rule he possibly could to distract from his own behaviour. Our employer detested him and knew exactly what he was like (he had been previously disciplined for bullying a colleague and another senior manager) but the organisation was spineless and incompetent.
I ended up having a mental health breakdown. It was horrendous.
He was allowed to resign so toddled off with no stain on his employment history for what he did to me.

ClockworkDisaster · 12/07/2024 17:16

Yes I’ve seen this happen to a succession of managers.

TonTonMacoute · 12/07/2024 17:16

Oh yes, absolutely.

Not me, thankfully, but a friend had one of her team who made her life an absolute misery.

Friend left the company but went back for someone's leaving party a few years later. This girl more or less followed her round the party apologising and saying that friend was the nicest boss she'd ever had and she didn't know why she'd been so horrible to her!

Gooselady · 12/07/2024 17:18

Yes I believe this happened to me, someone a couple of levels junior to me. I decided to leave the job in the end as I couldn't deal with it any longer.

Butterflyfern · 12/07/2024 17:18

Yes, I've seen it. Do you know the root cause? That might help posters advise strategies for getting it to stop/ the bully removed from your team/sacked (as per the most appropriate action)

Createausername1970 · 12/07/2024 17:21

I witnessed it once, many many years ago, but different times, different culture so it was just tolerated. Much older employee who obviously thought he should have progressed further up the tree, and much younger manager.

So it is a thing, and if you think it's happening to you, start to make notes with dates so that you have something concrete to raise, rather than just "a feeling"

LemonTreeGrove · 12/07/2024 17:21

I saw it happen in a hospital when I was a patient on a ward. A nurse of a lower rank was bullying one of a higher rank. They wore a different colour shirt depending on level.

fussychica · 12/07/2024 17:25

Definitely happens. Young manager v more experienced and/or older staff is a common one.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 12/07/2024 17:27

Totally possible - I found myself on the receiving end of it when I was a 22 year old graduate trainee being slotted in to manage a team of resentful public sector "lifers".

I managed it fine with help from a very wily HR manager, but it felt like shit and taught me a lot about what I didn't want from my work life.

DebtheSander · 12/07/2024 17:27

It is indeed a thing. I have experienced it. I went on maternity leave and a particular team member was not appointed to cover my responsibilities. In no way was I a part of that decision.

Upon my return, there was a long period of quietly undermining me at every turn. Manipulating junior members of staff. It got so bad that she manipulated a colleague (who was experiencing mental health difficulties) to lodge a formal complaint about me and others. It was discovered during the complaints investigation that said team member had written the complaint for her “friend”and stolen/doctored my paperwork as “evidence”.

it was the worst period of my professional life as the automatic assumption was that I was management so I must be the bad guy.

So yes, upward bullying is indeed a thing and is very difficult to prove.

PerkyMintDeer · 12/07/2024 17:28

This happened to one of my parents a lot, to the point where they won a tribunal for race discrimination when they faced bullying in the NHS when promoted to management. The colleague in question interviewed for the same role and my parent got it, and his friend also got a promotion. They were mocked, had junior staff pretend not to hear them/understand their (first language of) English, had the medication keys or clipboards thrown at them instead of handed over, nuisance phone calls to home (that were linked to the hospital), fictitious complaints, anonymous letters sent home, notes sent/records kept on our family who didn't work at the hospital (i.e what school I went to, what in laws did for a living, what our neighbours said about us etc...VERY odd), lots of documented racism and yet HR and Senior Managers did nothing at all to intervene (hence the tribunal). The friend was bullied too, with Irish racial bullying being part of it and they were supported, but they were white, again hence my parent winning the tribunal (as they are not white).

Parent then set up own business as NHS tried to make them work with the same colleague again but this time the bullying colleague had been promoted over them! Won a case for constructive dismissal but pension was frozen until State Pension age (instead of 55 as planned).

Another relative was bullied by their employees in their own business! It was awful, real nasty middle aged mean girls stuff, mocking behind back, stealing but covering for each other, clever psychological stuff that couldn't be proven because they'd all lie for each other. They basically took control of the business. Relative announced the business had to close due to unforeseen circumstances (luckily none of them had been there long enough for redundancy). Kept building, renamed business, took on different clientele and named spouse as director and got all new staff to open up again two months later.

It can definitely happen and supportive senior colleagues/HR and robust policies for dealing with bullying are needed. Seek ACAS advice if you are getting nowhere. Organisations have a duty of care and relevant legislation is in place which means they have to at least be seen as supporting victims of bullying over perpetrators.

BlueMum16 · 12/07/2024 17:28

I've seen this happen too

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 12/07/2024 17:28

Butterflyfern · 12/07/2024 17:18

Yes, I've seen it. Do you know the root cause? That might help posters advise strategies for getting it to stop/ the bully removed from your team/sacked (as per the most appropriate action)

I am not sure what the root cause is but I think a combination of:

  • incompetency and they don't like being pulled up on it (I do this gently but the mistakes are so excessive).
  • they appear to enjoy having a go at me and causing drama
OP posts:
ll09sm · 12/07/2024 17:29

Yes. Don’t stand for it. Deal with it officially through HR.

rainbowbee · 12/07/2024 17:31

I think I'm seeing it in my place. Younger manager, older woman employee. Latter plays the victim and complains if she's asked to, you know, actually work. Bitches about manager behind her back and in general causes drama. It's a personality clash mostly but I do think of it as bullying as she tries to involve others. Overheard same woman calling me a snob as I don't get involved so you can see the type.

TurtleMoon · 12/07/2024 17:32

OP, are you HoD in a secondary school?

PerkyMintDeer · 12/07/2024 17:44

I'd also say certain professions also lend themselves to it...

I've seen it/heard of it extensively in;

Care Homes
Nursing
Teaching
Childcare
Civil Service Admin environments

Truthseeker456 · 12/07/2024 17:45

How it manifested for me was holding of information , undermining me in front of colleagues , confusing the things I had said etc. managed to get through it usually it's due to a large deficiency within themselves. Ride it out , keep a log and address the behaviours with evidence as they will try and twist everything . Rise above it

PersonallyVictimizedByReginaGeorge · 12/07/2024 17:55

Of course it can happen.

Wtffffff · 12/07/2024 17:59

I’ve experienced it and it was awful at the time - a real low.
i would recommend keeping everything in writing or making notes of all incidences, or anything you are hearing second hand, eg gossip. The problem with bullying is a lot of it is non verbal too but i would even make a note of things like that.

Like your situation - the person I worked with was under performing and couldn’t accept even the slightest feedback on work (ie the kind of ordinary conversations we all have with staff and managers and even peers)…. And there was no willingness for training/l&d either. When it became v obvious that I wasn’t a pushover they started a bullying campaign instead and brought others in.

i would get HR support if you can, and keep everything agreed in writing with them - nothing that they can twist!

it will pass - somehow! Don’t let it infect your confidence.