'Upward' bullying. Is it possible?

[Batmanisaplaceinturkey]

I think I'm being upwardly bullied by someone I manage. Do I need a head shake?
Can't say too much as its outing.
Has anyone else experienced upward bullying?

Has she ignored certain requests?
Does that matter, work wise, or is it more that you know she doesn't respect you. Not everybody is going to either respect you or think we'll ok, fine, I'll fo it that way.

But sometimes it really matters and sometimes it really doesn't.

Any chance you can give more detail

Yes, it is most certainly a thing. I have experienced it. It should be covered in your policy.

Yes, it happened to me, two women, both my juniors, although one was older than me. Vile. It totally confused me and I spent a long time trying to be a 'good manager' - appeasing them, trying to help out with problems etc before I realised it was bullying. Then I felt a lot of shame. But eventually after one very bad incident I flatly refused to work with one of them. She subsequently left (unrelated) and I breathed a sigh of relief. The other one went on mat leave not long after and never came back, although I think she later logged into a system and tried to cause trouble.
I'm really sorry this is happening to you. Please get some support and don't blame yourself.

I've never heard of upward bullying but if you're the manager and someone in your team is being aggressive/argumentative/rude then you need to address it either through HR or speak to your own manager? Find out what your company's bullying policies are and go from there.

It's just happened to me over winter/ spring and ended in June when the bully left. I am a senior leader and she was a middle manager that I line managed. Even with excellent support from my boss, HR and the CEO it was a horrible experience and I am feeling bruised and wounded still.

I was bullied by someone managed

When I finally challenged her, she resigned within 2 weeks. Should have done it sooner

I booked a meeting room, gave specific examples of what she'd done, told her I'd be keeping written notes of any future incidents

HTH

Yes, happened to me. Told lots of lies to those above me, and was utterly bizarre to those at her level/below (found out even more people had hid when she left!). HR got involved and eventually I was not allowed to meet with her individually without an HR rep present (as she claimed I was bullying her, this should have been to her benefit - she took this VERY BADLY and kept trying to get me alone). It was an incredibly stressful period. Some kind of deal was made and I had to write a bland reference letter that she approved (which to anyone in the field would make it clear she did not have advanced skills, and the fact that she approved it showed she really didn't know what she was doing).

Yes; I am currently seeing this - a person I manage who has been challenged on a series of minor incidents and missed tasks - went massively on the defensive and accused me of all sorts of unprofessional behaviour in even raising these issues. I believe this member of staff is positioning themselves as a victim/ whistleblower to deflect from their own conduct/shortcomings and appalling absence record.

I've experienced this. My experience was that you have to behave very formally and by the book and have absolute rock solid boundaries - which doesn't always come easy especially if you're generally a supportive and flexible manager.

So after every interaction about their performance, you follow up with an email making clear what the problem was and what steps you've agreed to put it right. If they're causing drama or trying to create conflict, you shut it down immediately. "John, we're not going to discuss this here" or "John, that kind of comment isn't appropriate. Let's discuss this after the meeting" or if he's really kicking off and refusing to stop, you ask everyone else to give you the room and deal with it privately. You have to remove his audience. And obviously you need to stay very very close with HR throughout.

Gosh, yes, surprisingly common I suspect. At one place I worked we had a really good manager who was professional and clued up and happened to have quite a posh accent. The queen bee in the team was a gook worker but had a really chippy attitude and took against her. Called her a posh bitch to anyone who'd listen, undermined her at every opportunity and generally made her life difficult. Those of us who stood up for the manager were also bullied. Took ages before the manager got her act together and the culprit was removed.

Act quickly, OP. See it for what it is and nip it in the bud. If the person is doing it to you they'll probably be bullying others too.

Happened to me by a few of my team members when were all going through redundancy. You need to flag to HR so you get the support you need. Don’t suffer in silence or see it as a weakness, some people are arseholes and love the drama of making someone unhappy. Get help to put a stop to it.

I've seen this in a previous job in my early 20s. We had a manager who was pretty unpopular, not bad at her job but just not someone who was particularly likeable. She was uber professional, pretty hard nosed and not very empathetic to personal issues in comparison to more popular managers. She had some performance issues with a male colleague of mine. His response was to accuse her of sexual harassment. Except he told people in our team he had done this to get back at her. I think because she was unpopular, he expected everyone to support him. We didn't, we (all women) reported what he had said to HR and he received a disciplinary.
I asked to speak with the manager privately and told her that I could imagine that in that situation, she may have thought the entire office of 50 staff were all talking about it but I wanted to let her know that wasn't the case. Without exception the only references being made were by people who were shocked and disgusted that the male colleague would make something like that up because he was annoyed at being pulled up on his performance. She burst into tears and said that the situation had caused her serious mental health issues and affected her marriage. It was a good early career lesson for me for sure.

Yes I was bullied by a male wheelchair user. I think he felt his wheelchair made him invincible.

His bullying mainly consisted of undermining me at ever turn. Even the slightest challenge or mild attempt to assert myself resulted in him accusing me of bullying.

It didn’t stop until two other women joined forces to complain.

He simply moved on to a better job.

I think in that situation, it doesn't sound like active bullying, more so, a negative reaction to a company 'slotting in' an inexperienced 22 year old into a management position. It was an inappropriate placement and was bound to cause issues. Not your fault of course, but your company should have known better.

In fairness I could do the job and nobody disputed that. Since the behaviour was focused on my accent and completely unfounded suggestions about who I had slept with to get that job, I'm going to say the organisation wasn't the problem there.

It's not about doing the job, at least in most teams. Being a manager involves maturity, workplace experience and a confidence that is rare in young adults.

Being able to assess situations and support staff is a complex job that I just don't think a 22 year old is suited to. Albeit, be a senior member of the team technically, but not managerially and not a team of older, experienced workers.

I line manager a woman in her young 20s now. She's good at her role and generally mature for her age, but she definitely lacks workplace maturity. She just doesn't have the experience yet to make well rounded decisions. Nothing against her, but with age comes experience and experience is vital to be a successful manager.

Thank you so much for replying all. These messages have really helped. It's only dawned on me today that this is what's happening. She's made pretty serious allegations about me but backtracked when challenged (because its total bs). I feel my manager doesn't want to inflame the situation further but that makes me feel utterly exposed.
I'm very well regarded and liked in my organisation. I feel the person I manage does not like this. She has a few years of service and its been no end of mistakes and cock ups since she started and she's had so many chances from me.

Sounds ageist to me. I have had managers of all ages, and I can't say the older ones have been better than the younger ones.

My friend's daughter is 22 and manages a store for a well known chain, with a staff team of about the same size as the routine finance function I was managing. Is she too young to be managing there? Does it make a difference that her staff are the same age as her?

Yes, I knew someone who had absolutely no respect for her manager and made sure he knew it, she was rude, offhand and disrespectful. Thought it very amusing when a more senior manager said her behaviour was unacceptable but she didn't get a warning or anything.

She's made pretty serious allegations about me but backtracked when challenged (because its total bs). I feel my manager doesn't want to inflame the situation further but that makes me feel utterly exposed.

I finally confronted her with my (useless) manager present after I heard her talking about me to other people, and saying horrible things about my character. She told me in the meeting that she 'just felt you are the sort of person who would stab someone in the back'. I asked for evidence. She said she had none, she just really felt that way. I told her that she did not get to say whatever she wanted with no consequences, that I had the right to dignity at work the same as her and that if she continued to say defamatory things about me, I would be making a formal complaint and taking her through disciplinary. She was amazed! I dont think anyone had every challenged her before, and her nastiness had always made every manager back right off. She settled after that but I was so glad when she left a year or so later.

It's not about doing the job, at least in most teams. Being a manager involves maturity, workplace experience and a confidence that is rare in young adults.

Being able to assess situations and support staff is a complex job that I just don't think a 22 year old is suited to. Albeit, be a senior member of the team technically, but not managerially and not a team of older, experienced workers.

How many decent managers have you had in your life? I've been badly managed by people of all ages. Age doesn't necessarily confer maturity, knowledge and good judgment. I have only had two really good, engaged, professional managers over a 40-year working life. One of them was younger than me and mature beyond her years, one was the kind of older, wiser manager that we all long for.

Anyone with management experience will understand the problems that arise in organisations where the 'lifers' hold back innovation and cling to the status quo. The set-int-their-ways 'But we've always done it like this' brigade would have given anyone, whatever their age or experience, a hard time.

Work with HR to work out a plan and implement performance monitoring etc. Stick to the script. When you have meetings with her, have someone from HR sit in. You are clearly highly valued within your organisation and HR should work with you to protect you.

Of course it happens, it is going on now in every school in the country - students bullying teachers.

Absolutely. Bullying can go in any direction.