Secret decluttering...

[Mummyof287]

We live in a fairly small home, I hate clutter, untidiness,too much stuff etc....it makes my brain feel so overwhelmed.

Trouble is DH and oldest DD (7) don't like getting rid of anything (despite DH often complaining that there is no space and too much stuff!)
Due to this, I have taken it upon myself over the years to routinely get rid of things (often secretly) to the charity shop etc, if it's things I know they won't notice, but sometimes I feel guilty about doing this as I know if they did know (this is mainly DD's stuff) they might not have wanted it to go.

I've sometimes been abit too ruthless then regretted it, and have even bought some stuff back from the charity shop before.
I'm currently regretting sending a soft toy there last week that I then saw a photo of DD with as a toddler and remembered was quite special to her then.I know she and DH probably wouldn't be very pleased if they knew it had gone to the charity shop, although she has soo many more and if I don't mention it neither of them will notice.

AIBU? What do other people do?! It's a constant battle in my brain....wanting a tidy uncluttered home, but not knowing what to keep or not...i am quite sentimental and from a very sentimental family who kept everything.But they had a big 4-bed detached house so they had space to!

If you can't have a rational discussion with other household members about hoarding/clutter, then you have a much bigger problem than the clutter itself!

With our son and all his lego, scalextric, model railways, and other random collections, we pointed out to him that he had limited "safe" storage, i.e. a cupboard and his wardrobe.

When we were clearing out my late parent's house, the loft contained a lot of my father's "hobby" items, such as a huge amount of Hornby Dublo metal trains - they were all rusty, moudly and generally horrible, cardboard boxes had disintegrated. We showed them to our son to emphasis what happens to stuff when it's not properly packed/stored and just "abandoned" somewhere and left. He was genuinely upset as he'd have loved to have been able to set up my father's old train set and run the antique trains around, but even with a major clean up of the locos, they were unusable. I think it was a very good lesson for him to learn and he started showing more interest in packing things up, putting them away, etc., so fully understood when there was no storage space left, he had to "declutter" and accept some things to be sold/donated!

Same with my OH. He had a few items of clothing he never wore, including an expensive autographed football shirt - just randomly hung at the back of the wardrobe. Likewise he was very upset when he got it out once to look at and saw that there were moth holes in it and the vinyl number and name on the back were disintegrating. It prompted him to get other "valuable" (to him) items out, check them over, and wrap/package them before putting them into a more safe/secure place!

Sometimes they need a bit of "tough love" to make them see sense and to make them realise that if they want to keep a lot of "stuff", they need to take responsibility for it's storage and packing, and if there's not enough room, they either have to make room or downsize their own stuff!

That’s completely missing the point. And yes, you are exactly right that spouses don’t go to the trouble of pursuing it which is why we don’t hear of it. I’m not suggesting restraint for fear of ending up in the clink. I’m saying it’s morally off. Do you think things are only wrong if you get caught? A lot of people do …

What about the "moral" aspect of someone living in a household who doesn't give a shit about others living in the same household to the extent of cluttering the house with a lot of unnecessary crap. It works both ways.

two wrongs and all that.....

DH is just back from a frustrating weekend at his parents'. His dad will not chuck anything away, ever. They live in a standard three bed semi, every bedroom has wardrobes along all the walls and all are rammed with clothes. They were talking about storing clothes in the loft. MIL said she could do with having a clear out and would sort out a couple of bags for charity. FIL went ballistic, they paid good money for those clothes, still wear in them, they would do someone a turn, wouldn't DH like the (very dated and 3 sizes too big) double breasted suit etc etc etc.

MIL eventually did sort out a bag of clothes she was happy to part with and wanted reassurance it would be donated and sold for good money to "help the poor children" but when we got home and sorted it out it was all complete rubbish which was only fit for the bin - very very dated blouses, acrylic cheapie jumpers falling to bits. Straight in the textiles bin.

They are both in their 80s and have SO much clothing they will never wear, FIL has about a dozen suits, 50 work shirts, similar number of ties, MIL has umpteen "cruise" style cocktail dresses, outfits bought for weddings in the 80s/90s, the house is full to bursting. DH and his sibling are just resigned to one hell of a clearance effort when the time comes.

Well the law doesn’t deem that worthy of creating criminal liability around that - which is really my point. Sanctity of property and ownership are cornerstones of human interaction.

There is the law of trespass but you’d need separate living arrangements for that to fly.

'Hello,I'd like to report the theft of an MOT certificate.The car in question was scrapped in 1982'.

It isn’t about reporting it; it’s about respecting the right of the owner to do the disposing.

Not when they don't respect my right to live in a house that's free of their crap.

They can stick it in the garage.

I don’t see a problem with that. They can always retrieve it and find a tidy place for it that way.

That's why I put stuff in the loft. We have two lofts. One is the house loft which is pretty much a "safe" place in that things will last for many years before deteriorating/damage as it's carpeted and wall papered, insulated etc - more like a normal storage room. The other loft is in the integral garage which is a typical "loft" and where stuff will eventually get damp etc if left for many years! First place for "decluttered" stuff is the house loft. If OH or DS actually notice something is missing (highly unlikely) they'll find it up there at first. As I put newer stuff up there, I take out an older box or two and put it in the garage loft. I do a strict "one in one out" in the house loft, so always take out a similar volume of stuff when I put something new up there.

The garage loft is the first part of the journey to the charity shop or tip! I use the same "one in, one out" for the garage loft, anything in there is long forgotten by OH and DS - several years since they last used it or thought about it. I tend to try to take out stuff whilst it's still either sellable on ebay or donatable to a charity shop - so before it gets damp and mouldy. Anything that's of no value to anyone gets taken to the tip.

OH and DS will have had ample opportunity and many years before any of their stuff gets disposed of. They know that anything that is of particular value to them, either financially or sentimentally, they need to put it in their own cupboards/wardrobe for safekeeping, both in terms of preservation so it doesn't get mouldy/damp and so that I don't ditch it. I never take anything out of their specific cupboards/wardrobes where they know things are "safe" including safe from me. But anything left/abandoned elsewhere, such as in other random cupboards, floors, shelving, drawer units, etc is fair game for me - they know that, and I've told them enough times how my "system" works. So, they either put stuff away properly in their own longer term "storage" spaces that they know I won't touch, or they risk it being taken up to the loft, and eventually the garage loft and eventually disposed of.

It works well. Everyone knows where they stand with it. I think that's the crux really, to have transparency and openness to encourage them to take responsibility, look after things, and keep the house tidy, or face the consequences of them having to dig around the loft to find stuff or ultimately risk it being sold/tipped/donated. I've had no complaints. Having the loft as a kind of "holding area" for a few years means that they've got ample opportunity to find stuff if it's important to them!

That’s a really good system and good that it is transparent .

I think it’s the sneaky “straight to the bin and snigger” declutterers that are causing people to say it’s wrong.

Yes it's awful when things are just wasted like this, and end up ruined and un-useable, when someone else could have cherished and cared for them!

I absolutely agree with this. I think what a lot of people who think it's wrong to let go of clutter on behalf of others forget is that it is more often than not mothers who are the sorter-outers of junk, mothers who clean and tidy, mothers who get frustrated when they can't find anything because there's too much stuff, mothers who take it to the charity shop, mothers who disproportionately do housework and so an excess of stuff often impacts mothers way more than the other household members. Mothers have enough to do without the extra burden that excess junk puts on them cluttering up the house. A household runs so much more easily when there is less stuff - easier to clean, easier to organise, easier to find stuff, less time to sort out, less anxiety and less feeling of being hemmed in and overwhelmed. If you're by default the person who deals with all this stuff on a daily basis it's absolutely fair to expect others to be flexible and understanding when you request decluttering and letting go of items.

But again you have slipped in one small, justificatory word which makes your post not what this thread is about. You have said “request.” This thread is all about justifying clandestine disposal.

@Calliopespa I definitely think because of the impact on mothers there is an argument for clandestine disposal. I get rid of things clandestinely, using the "put in the loft for 6 months" because if I didn't my house would be a nightmare. I am a lone parent though, so there's no other half to deal with. My child struggles enormously with getting rid of stuff, so I identify the loved and get rid of only the stuff I know they will not miss. Imagine trying to sort through random bits of paper, newspaper, party bag junk, plastic rubbish they've been given at school and the child not agreeing to part with a single thing!

If I hadn't done this over the last 7-8 years then I would be living in a shit tip. My child has never noticed a single thing go missing. I do however notice their mood gets considerably worse when their room is messy because they refuse to clean it or organise it.

So until my child is old enough and mature enough to do all the jobs I do on their behalf (cleaning, organising, decluttering and taking ownership of their own stuff and life more) I absolutely think it is fair. What is not fair is expecting others to keep an organised house for all the family but kick off when the mother gets fed up of stuff falling on her head from the over stuff cupboard because they refused to throw out a single piece of paper over 10 years.

Personally I think with children it is less of an issue. We make small decisions every day about withholding information from them - about how ill Granny really is etc etc. We do have to make decisions on their best interests that they might not understand. But with spouses I just think it is the hallmark of a really poor relationship communication-wise. Even teenagers who can reason through the issues in context should be consulted

while I agree with this, how will a child learn about keeping control of clutter if they are never involved in the process?

Well personally I would discuss it. Mine totally get it. But if these children really struggle so much I guess the parents have to start with discussions around a few items.

I have to admit one thing I struggle with is art and craft from school. The problem is it is bulky, often doesn’t store well as the glue dries and things roll off, frequently doesn’t look like much anyway and is surprisingly often made from foodstuffs like pasta or sweets which would attract mice unless stored very carefully ( or in the pantry!) Yet it is deeply personal and broaching disposal can be much trickier. When we have had things start to disintegrate I have done the “ oh no! Quickly let’s take photos before it falls apart!” Usually that works ok and as the paint fades etc they decide the photo looks better. I have got very good at taking flattering photos of craft! I’m sure galleries would employ me! But I always keep and display them a reasonable time ( much as my heart sometimes sinks when they emerge through the nursery/ school doors!) And I would never sneakily bin one, even if I sometimes angle the process toward deciding it “might not survive well” if we put it in the keep drawer. I am sure some of these projects are passive aggression toward parents by teachers! 🤣

I bribe them

this absolutely but the discussion was about sneaking things away.

Yes. And personally I don’t sneak, at all. However I can appreciate that although my children respond ok to the discussion, with young children it might be more appropriate than with older children and adults. I just think binning an adult’s possessions behind their back is wrong.

During these types of discussions I have noticed that a large proportion of hoarding types seem to be men. Maybe that's partly because it is generally the women who do the tidying up and cleaning in a house, so the men don't see the impact of the clutter in the way women do.

This is a difficult one. My MIL chucked out my DH's camera kit when he was a student (only temporarily away from home) which I would be furious at - they are very much minimalist. On the other hand my Dad is a hoarder with an un-useable house so a degree of clearing is necessary, especially in a small flat.