Partner applying for job with travel while wanting to start a family

[Milmilj]

My partner and I have been together for just over 2 years, moved in together and are thinking of starting a family. He's the one who has approached the topic of children and is desperate to start a family. Admittedly I’ve felt I would rather wait a little longer having just got a little promotion at work - plus he doesn’t want to marry for another few years and I want some time to get used to that idea of having children before marriage.

He has an interview for a job that will require him to travel abroad from time to time. At the moment we are unsure how often it will be but I can’t help but feel anxious and upset he has gone for the job without much discussion - especially when he is the one talking about babies. In his current job, he works away 3 days a month and he isn’t very passionate about it. I have to travel nearly an hour to work from home every day, so I just worry about the logistics of managing bringing up young children in an environment like this.

I guess I am asking: how has it worked out for others? I feel awful to ask, but is my partner being selfish? Am I being selfish? For the most part he will be working from home. I don't want to risk my own career… what if a child is ill when he’s away? Both of our parents still work and I wouldn’t want to assume the responsibility on them.

When I try to bring up such questions up he shuts down the conversation and says he needs to be in the headspace for the interview. I feel selfish for raising my concerns when it’s a job he clearly wants. But at the same time, I want the father of my children to be involved in raising them. I’m worried that while he is away I will struggle single parenting. We live in the middle of nowhere so help isn't just around the corner. Am I being too negative?

Thanks all.

Well, he couldn't be telling you more clearly how things are going to be, could he?

He won't marry you ('his word'😂) now, or likely ever - he's more interested in protecting his assets
He is pushing you to have children before you're ready and comfortable with your situation
You'll be doing it all (or most of it) on your own
He is not interested in your views and opinions on any of this.

You know how this will go if you put your wishes aside, so at least you'll be going in with your eyes open if you do it.

Op, you have said he won't marry you before you've had children, but he will after.

Can you think of any one good kind reason why?

It makes no logical sense at all except from to protect himself. There's nothing in it whatsoever for you or your child.

I think you said ypthread you did ask him why not and his reason was to protect his assets. From his wife (will never be) and child?!? He wants to protect his assets away from his wife and child. That is what he said to you. Surely you can see how abhorrent that is, even with your oestrogen fuelled rose tinted spectacles?

At best, you are not both on the same page at this point in time. At worst, red flags galore.

Protect your own interests. Be careful not to get 'accidentally' pregnant (be responsible for your own contraception).

He won't marry you. He wants to get you pregnant (dependent) without the legal responsibilities. He wants a job with travel.

Are you mad? Evidently not, as the alarm bells are ringing and you posted here.

Walk away. There really are better options and men out there who you will have true compatibility and shared life goals with.

You don’t want to have kids outside of marriage. There is nothing wrong with this and it isn’t transactional. Children are far more of a bind than marriage (not legally more’s the pity, but practically - it means you’re essentially stuck dealing with a person for life for the sake of your dc) so I wouldn’t even consider having a child with someone who doesn’t want to commit to marriage.

Firstly, I'm sure the promotion at work wasn't a little one. The money may only be a little bit more, but promotions are a big deal! Congratulations on that.
About your commitment-shy partner. He sounds selfish, OP. He's rigid about what he wants and I don't think trusts you enough to make himself financially vulnerable by marrying you. It's okay for you to have his baby, take your focus off your career, be at home while he gets to go off travelling and generally still play at being single.
I'd be thinking very hard about what positives he brings to your relationship that make it worth staying.

I think you need to think about what you need, want, require from a relationship. If he is meeting those requirements, stick with him, if not, don't!
I too have been in an abusive relationship and am now married with children. My DH brought the bulk of the money to the relationship. Fortunately he was happy with marriage before children. He worked long hours, often away in the early months after our daughter was born. It was horrible - he didn't enjoy it and neither did I.
Other half applying for a job with travel, whilst wanting children and closing down discussions is not a good sign.
Reflecting as I write, is this another abusive relationship? Albeit in a different way from a past one?
In all honesty, I don't think he will marry you, he is just dangling that to keep you on side. The pressure on you to have children is a way to tie you to him, possibly mess up your career. Make you dependent on him.
Please take some time out of this relationship to really reflect on things. Particularly when you are feeling the pressure of age. (I had given up on relationships but got together with DH at 32, married at 33, had first baby at 34! Miracles do happen!)

"When I mention marriage before kids he says I’m being too transactional. He says I need to take a leap of faith. "

He's the one that's needing to take a leap of faith into marriage. He's a hypocrite.

You're** the one prepared to do that. He isn't. Because he must feel that you could potentially split up and he'll lose half his house to you in the divorce. He just wants his cake and eat it.

I'd suggest you need to ask him why he doesn't want to get married.

If he says it's "just a bit of paper and means nothing" tell him that if it's so unimportant let's just do it next month in a registry office with two witnesses and then I will feel more secure.

I think you'll find he says no and waffles something about you being silly or it's unnecessary. Gaslights your feelings basically.

Your next question is "I'm not prepared to have children without the security of marriage. If you don't love me enough to marry me you must think the grass is greener, or be scared I will take half your house in a divorce. Either way you're not very confident in our relationship. So if you don't love me that much are we over?"

Start packing a bag. Sorry OP.
Cake and eat types don't change.

He doesn't want to talk about it as doesn't want to accept the responsibility or the potential change in his life ... But to play at family man with limited effort or commitment.... So is assuming you'll pick up all the responsibility and change ..

It's up to you if you're happy with that vision of your future?? And the financial implications for you.. especially if you look at altering your work/income

I think it sounds like you'd prefer to be married before having kids, that's not unreasonable! I felt the same, it's a public declaration that you're committed and in it for the long haul!

Also, I think it's important to be on the same page before having kids so the conversations need to be had, don't start trying before you sure your on the same page!

He wants to pin you down without making any kind of commitment to you. That's a big fat red flag.

Do not have children without the benefit of marriage.

Remember that the woman is ALWAYS left holding the baby, and that the motherhood penalty is very real.

Having a baby puts a grenade into a woman's career, finances, and future security. The statistics speak for themselves.

Parenting is rarely taken on in equal terms by men. They expect the woman to be the default and to pick up all the slack and make all the sacrifices. They also bear none of the financial penalties. What happens to your income? Your pension and savings? Who will make up the difference and will you have equal access to money regardless of whether he's earned it or you?

Do not have children with him - or any man for that matter - without having a firm agreement, preferably in writing, about all of the above. It's shocking how many men change their tune once there are children in the mix.

I completely forgot that you weren't married yet.
Yeah everything above👆
Run

We have had many arguments about marriage before children and have almost split because of it. He said he is compromising and that I have his word.

I'm really sorry, I'm tired and I must have missed it but what is he compromising on here? He's the one who wants you to stop taking the pill and pressuring ypu to have a baby now. He's the one who won't marry you and he's the one who won't discuss anything of any use while you make these massive decisions. What is he comprising on exactly?
He isn't one of the good ones.

...but he's not compromising, he's gaslighting you.
You should look at the Freedom project and also I'm in the minority probably but if people are willing to share kids they can share finances.

If you have his kids, you have no protection, if you want to be with him and he is 'willing to compromise ' they tell him you want legal papers draw up that states you own the house, or he has to give you as a gift 60k or whatever is technically plausible won't be impossible but will make the reality real to him- he has to prove he can give up something, if you have to.

How he reacts will show you if he wants kids with you or just wants the option of kids and you

Do NOT have children with him.

He wants all the reward of having children while you pick up the grunt work and with no protection from marriage.

Fuck that.

Honestly I’d bin him altogether but if you insist on trying - you discuss what’s going to happen when and make it clear you will not be having children with him a. Until you are married and b. Until he accepts he will have to share the load with you and cannot be working away all the time.

Also have a robust plan of shared childcare and that you will return to work.

@Milmilj mumsnet is stuffed full of women with men who were desparate to start families but then carry on exactly as before- if you aren't married then you are more vulnerable- also if you buy/rent a house make sure it's in both names, personally I would say no marriage, no kids unless I had been with someone 5 years plus.

Thanks all.

To clarify:

He doesn’t want to marry because of fear of losing assets that he’s worked for all his life. He is applying for a travel job but it is actually a pay cut to what he is earning now.

I have no assets but I have a decent wage (£50,000).

So I've gathered:

• you've been together just over 2 years;
• he earns more than you;
• you're 34 and he's 40ish;
• you live together, but he owns the home;
• he travels alone sometimes (not with work) because when he wants to go, you can't get time off (are you a teacher?) so you have gone away with your parents;
• he is a nice partner and helps clean and supports your promotions too.

So to put it out there, I'm 32. You've got a 40 something who has likely spent a lot of his 4 decades doing what he likes, travelling for work and "possibly" having a long term partner at home at times but who he's not been tied to via a house or marriage eg low commitment. He is clearly quite set in his views on marriage but in all honesty? Has hit early 40s and the "I haven't had kids yet and will be 60 when they're 18" is hitting him. Not to diminish his feelings for you or how lovely you are, but don't be blinded by the possibility you're a nice person and a stable choice, but not someone he will COMMIT to change for - speaking about marriage "one day" and proposing are different things.

On side notes- I'd expect him to help at least 50:50, it's HIS house and if he didn't maintain it, he's lose money on it. Are you expecting to own a share in that at some point? Not to echo others, but I agree you should look at marriage before kids generally and the setup (legally/financially) sounds like he could clear your things into suitcases and you'd leave with nothing. Children won't change that.

I'm a lawyer, my fiancé is an accountant. I have worked really hard for my career and do well - he works 1 hour 50 mins drive away from home and wfh 3 days a week. I recently left the same company (he joined just recently) after 4 years and now work 10 mins from our house and wfh 2 days a week. Even though we're engaged, I've clearly said that when we have children, realistically either he needs to move jobs to somewhere closer (because he'll have been promoted by them and likely needs to be present more) OR we move house to a more reasonably commute and I move my job down there too as there are options for us both down there. I do not budge when he says he "doesn't mind having to drive 2 hours there and back 2 days a week", because that means I'm 24/7 a parent but 2-3 days will be default parent leaving at 3pm for pick ups and drop offs and taking the brunt of the work at home with just as stressful a job. Neither of us want to move away, so he knows he has until we have kids and I'm due back from Mat Leave to get a lot of experience and look for a new role up home. Even with us having the marriage commitment, why should my career come second? (We earn similar salaries but that's not the point, your career can be important to you too!)

I'd put a pause on children for now. Make clear that you value marriage before kids and don't envisage being a "default parent" when you see your future family setup. Being honest and not making him sound dispensable? You sound lovely and could easily meet someone in their mid-30s too on the same page as you and not rushing for kids ASAP. ♥️

I feel awful to ask, but is my partner being selfish? Or am I?

Re:read your own comments:
He's the one who has approached the topic of children and is desperate to start a family.
Admittedly I’ve felt I would rather wait a little longer having just got a little promotion at work
Plus he doesn’t want to marry for another few years
I want some time to get used to that idea of having children before marriage.
He has an interview for a job that will require him to travel abroad from time to time.
At the moment we are unsure how often it will be but I can’t help but feel anxious and upset he has gone for the job without much discussion
I have to travel nearly an hour to work from home every day, so I just worry about the logistics of managing bringing up young children in an environment like this.

He's applying pressure without discussing your career and your responsibilities and isn't committed enough yet for marriage but wants kids. He hasn't given a second thought to the impact on you of working abroad.

He likes the idea of kids, but not the responsibility of kids and hes not committed enough to you and your potential children to give you the security of marriage.

He needs to grow the fuck up, and you need to have this out with him BEFORE you start trying. His attitude stinks. He's already dumping HIS responsibilities onto you. Imagine what will happen if you get pregnant very quickly.

His assets are more important to him, than you.

Why would you have kids with him?

He’s a selfish git isn’t he?

I would leave to be honest.

When I mention marriage before kids he says I’m being too transactional. He says I need to take a leap of faith.

Um. Nah. He needs to marry you before you have kids together. Why should you and the children be the ones to take this leap and put your security in jeopardy? Fuck that and his asset fear. He's the one who needs to take the leap, of faith or to the far side of fuck. He's literally saying he doesn't trust you not to take his assets, yet he expects you to go all in with him on having kids. I don't like the way it's all on you to get used to what he wants either. Just because he's better than your ex doesn't mean he's great and should get all his way and shut your very sensible needs down. You're not selfish. You have to stand up for yourself and any DC that may come. He's not doing you some big favour, it's a fundamental and if you don't hold out for it, it's you and the DC that will suffer.

What are your thoughts after the advice given @Milmilj ?

So then why can’t he sympathise with the fact that you don’t want to lose your assets either, ie, your earning power and pension, which you may well have to cut back on if you have a baby whilst he’s off travelling the world? He’s a selfish man.

So he wants to protect his assets does he?

Sounds like he wants to make sure he can behave badly in your relationship with no consequence.

If he says ”oh I’m fully committed, but what if YOU decide to end the marriage through no fault of mine” tell him he needs to make a leap of faith…

Wait. You aren’t ready. And if he wants to start a family and you are planning to get married - GET married FIRST.
Your career is going to take a hit.

My DP took role with travel when our youngest was a newborn. I was against it. The next few years of looking after a toddler,
a baby and working while DP was travelling a lot almost broke me and our relationship.

It’s not just the week a month they’re away, it’s the prep for going, and the jet lag afterwards that really impacts when one of you is regularly travelling.