"Prime Minister Keir Starmer recommits to £3 billion a year of military support for Ukraine until 2030/31 and for as long as needed"

[changefromhr]

That's a huge amount of money for a war that's not going to end anytime soon.
3 BILLION a year!
3 x 1 thousand millions!
Where is this money going to come from? This is in addition to almost £12.5bn in military, humanitarian and economic support already given for Ukraine since Russia’s illegal and miscalculated full scale invasion in February 2022.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-stand-with-ukraine-for-as-long-as-it-takes-pm-to-tell-nato

@BowlOfNoodles It is our defence though

Budapest memorandum

That’s foolish. As others have said, Starmer is continuing what the Tories did. He should be well regarded for that, but he’s not spending anything differently so far as Ukraine’s concerned.

There are several things that frighten me about this thread. One is how little people seem to know about what our governments (of any colour) are doing with our money, despite a very recent election where you'd think they'd at least have done a bit of reading. This is not news.the new government is simply confirming it will continue with support we were already giving.

That people seem to have no idea how close we are to all out war. The Ukrainians have literally saved the world, up to now, against all odds. Of course they can't do it without help. So far we've only had to offer financial support, not bodies. That is a very good deal for us. If Russia had been allowed through to a NATO country, which many expected within weeks of the invasion, the world would look very different now.

That people think more, relatively small, amounts of money can change anything significant in the NHS. It needs much more than that and not all of it financial.

You didn't get what I'm saying and that's cool.

I agree that this is a very good thing. The repercussions of ignoring the threat Russia poses will be far worse. I support Labour in this

You do realise we are not just supporting Ukraine with this funding? This is also to protect ourselves and the rest of the world

This is a problem of our own...

Even the Daily Mail have had an article recently about this. Labour are better for our economy.

Money will always be found to fund wars and people will always justify it. I remember everyone supporting the invasion of Iraq, that cost a good friend of mine his life and was all a lie. History keeps repeating itself, men in power send others to die for wars in their name and will always have a reason for it.

It's Putin you need to be addressing all this to. Speaking as someone who participated in a lot of ultimately futile demos against the Iraq war.

Our participation in some wars are justifiable though @spuddy4 .

The 1990 Gulf War, The Balkans conflict, WW2, for example. Wars show not sign of ending. There will always be someone trying it on. Regardless of mistakes any society may make, eg 2003 Iraq War.

I agree and was against the war in Iraq from the start. This is different though. Putin has invaded a country without any justification. He is not defending Russia. He’s invading Ukraine. If he succeeds then it’s likely to then go further. Firstly we have a duty to help Ukraine defend themselves and secondly it’s important Putin isn’t emboldened to push further, for our own security.

We need to have the means and ability to defend ourselves and the resolve to do it. By 'ourselves' I mean the democratic West.

We now have to reinvest in the means and ability. The resolve may take a little while longer and our survival may depend on it.

Oh and let’s raise 1.5billion for education or NOT as it’s going to cost more by adding VAT to fees, jeez this country.

@Kovus ,

Do you really believe that Putin, considering he can’t even invade Ukraine, would try and take on Poland, and then drive towards the French coast? This is 70s thinking!

We would annihilate him in the air and then invade Russia at our will. Of course, that is ex nukes which, if used, and they probably would be, would be the end of all of us.

Modern weapons are all about the chips, and Russia doesn’t have them. Even China is a few years behind the U.S, which is why Taiwan is so strategically important.

Putin is a despot, but we have to hope that he is not suicidal.

This is nonsense. It’s a falsehood that continues to circulate however many times it’s shot down.

Labour since WWII has inherited better economies than it has left. That’s the false basis of the claim.

@kovus,

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/tusk-promises-poles-will-soon-be-richer-than-brits/

There is some evidence that Poland has a good chance of surpassing the uk’s gdp/capita by 2030.

You can cavil about PPP vs absolute measure but PPP is appropriate for how rich you feel. The trend is also clear.

The UK is no longer a world power in any sense.

@Newbutoldfather That is not what I said. A coalition of anti-West states may do. Russia will rearm as a result of its experience in Ukraine - a wake up call. China is playing the long game and Russia will partner it. But both covet Africa which has the human resources they need. It is dangerous to think of Russia in a vacuum of its own.

Standing up for what's right often has a price.

Or we could just let the world descend into a free for all where the scumbags rule...

@Newbutoldfather
I am pleased for Poland and all those other countries, no longer under the Soviet Empire, that are now performing well. It has to be a success story. The UK has been less so, but to suggest we are not a power in any sense is stretching it a bit far. I suspect your agenda is to bash the UK really. Not worth wasting my time on really.

@FinalCeleryScheme

I'd rather you didn't call my comments foolish.

My tax has been used to fund contracts for cronies and failed projects by the tories.

I'm pleased it's being used to fund support for Ukraine. Whether that's a continuation or additional funding, I don't actually give a fuck as long as we continue to support Ukraine

I believe VAT on school fees will cover it

We cannot let Putin succeed in Ukraine. The consequences of that are unimaginable. Although if Trump wins in America our 3 billion will not help much

Standing up for what is right

Preventing much worse problems in the long term

And if the disabled bill goes down because we make people fitter and healthier then I don't see what the problem with that is either

Fair enough. Bit it’s a bit off to attack any government on a basis of its successor’s willingness to continue to pay for the defence of Ukraine.

Allegations of Tory cronyism are also false - at least in the sense of being abnormal for any government - but not for this thread.