£35.50 to take a car into London 😲

[whatdoidonowffs]

Confirmed the Blackwall tunnel and the new Silvertown tunnel will become toll tunnels in 2025
£4 per crossing 😡😡 add that to the congestion and ULEZ charge hardly worth going to work !!

I think it’s very difficult to design a policy which literally never makes life slightly more difficult for at least the occasional edge user in the short-run and at the immediate point of use (although long-term, even that edge-case person will probably still end up better off, if the policy is well-designed).

Can you imagine if we were trying to get drink-driving banned now for the first time in 2024? “But what about someone who’s disabled and married to an alcoholic?” “Working class men in hard jobs are grafting away all day and sometimes NEED a drink after work!” “This will really shaft rural pubs, how can you justify this?”

A few decades later, and we all basically accept that drink-driving is banned and that there are good reasons for this, and that we can’t have everyone going around drinking UTI because of a few sad edge cases.

Pretty much all economists (regardless of politics) are in favor of charging for roads/parking in various guises, because it’s a prosperity-building measure; it frees up road space for those who really need to drive. Even tradespeople grumbling about the charges will be better off ultimately, because you are better off paying a bit and being able to fit in more jobs and get to them on time, rather than getting roads and parking “free” but then spending half your working day stuck in traffic and grinding round and round trying to find a parking space.

So you agree it's not air quality....
Traffic doesn't seem any different in outer London because despite taking existing routes and renaming them superloop you can't efficiently get around the outskirts by public transport

@jannier So you agree it's not air quality....

And yet
www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-dramatic-improvements-londons-air-quality-2016

good - I live in central London - the charges are designed to stop people driving in unnecessarily - particularly with old pollution belching vehicles.

This is not research based on the new Ulez it's on inner London a totally different beast to outer London....interesting to look at air quality in the underground though not that we have the option to use it going around outer London.
The post I replied to said it was financial.

Surely if you live in central london, you can use public transport, or bikes or taxis

• Air pollution has been reduced London-wide, with concentrations decreasing by 65 per cent in central London, 53 per cent in inner London, and 45 per cent in outer London since 2016.

It literally gives the figures for outer London too.
Data on purely the effect of the ULEZ expansion will be limited since it hasn’t even been in action for a year. Although the impact is obviously staggered in the run up due to older cars being phased out in anticipation anyway.

I should have clarified, but I was talking specifically about CC as CC has also been discussed on this thread.

Ulez is, strictly speaking, about air quality, as it does not target cars other than a smallish % that are really bad in pollution terms.

You do realise that people who live in central London do actually leave London at times? 🙄And may need to get to places that aren't accessible by public transport, too far by bike and too expensive by taxi? Those same places where people live that insist they need cars for? It's not some one way journey that once you live in central London you're never allowed to leave.

As an example, I live in central London but every Sunday I do some specialist voluntary work in the depths of Kent. I start work by 9am. To get there by public transport (plus a taxi or a 50 min walk at the end - no buses go nearby), I would have to leave London on SATURDAY evening. So I drive. On a Sunday morning. It's actual quite pleasant.

I work in the square mile. Literally no one there drives to work, for the simple reason that traffic is awful and there's nowhere reliable to park. Time is money. Our basement has about a dozen parking spaces and over 200 bike racks. I think the uk is fairly unusual, though, in that even the very well paid in our capital city will often choose public transport over driving, because unless you have a chauffeur, it is just more convenient to get the train/tube to work.

You do realise that people who live in central London get a 90% discount on the congestion charge? 🙄

I think if you live in the congestion charge zone you have probably had enough time to factor that in to the overall costs of car ownership.

The problem is that we've normalised needing a car to such an extent it's incredibly difficult for most people to consider any other way of living. We've allowed it to dominate transport policy decisions to the exclusion of alternatives.

If you live in central London you don't need a car .....and only the wealthy can afford a parking space.....I'm sure a lot will be along saying we're not rich we only earn £200k.....but I mean really struggling on £50k a family. In outer London the dynamics change and to move around is harder because transport is worse so it's spend hours on public transport or drive.

Imagine the parking threads that would result if everyone had two cars (so possibly four cars per household).

It penalises trade people, parents of young/multiple children, and disabled people.

I can see the advantages but absolutely some people will suffer for it