To think it’s a lot of mental effort to keep up with gender these days?

[Oodiks]

My 18 yo daughter recently started work at a pizza place and she’s been telling me how much more she likes this place than the last pizza place she worked at.

She didn’t want to bring food home from the first place, partly because she didn’t trust the industrial pizza dough that came on pallets, but mostly because it was all teenage boys working there and they didn’t wear gloves to prepare the food. The new place is better because they do wear gloves to prepare the food and it’s not all teenage boys.

I was a little confused, because all the names she’s mentioned, pretty much, are boy’s names, Milo is the only one I remember, but it’s all been boy’s names except for one person with a girl’s name, who she calls her work best friend. I comment and she’s, like, OMG, don’t make assumptions, it’s a very gender diverse place. But she does agree that females tend to be more hygiene aware, and we leave it like that.

But it leaves me uncomfortable. She clearly knows that these ‘boys’ are in fact girls, but can’t bring herself to say it, although she acknowledges by saying that these ‘boys’ are clean whereas she didn’t trust the ‘other boys’ to wash their hands.

What kind of mental gymnastics does that take?

Plus, your MiL may be a complete freak, but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of females have better hygiene that the majority of males.

Tbh all of the kids are actually aware of their sex so I wouldn't be in that position. It's not that deep with any of them, like I said it's more like trying different styles than anything else. They know full well that there is a difference between Dave who was born dave and ciara who has decided to be dave for a while. They just don't see it as a big deal that ciara has decided to be dave for a while and won't see it as a big deal if ciara decides to be ciara again or if she decides to be Alex next.

Its obviously a topic that riles you up and it did me too until I saw how unserious they actually are about the whole thing. They really aren't walking around not knowing the difference between male and female. I sure there are a few who are but as far as I can tell the mainstream kind of 'gender bending' for want of better term is just playing around.

I mean yeah, being a nice person and accepting of others is how we make the world a better place, no?

I’d imagine it to be completely exhausting if you lived life constantly suspicious and questioning everybody and everything.

If your DD is concerned about hygiene (or any other issue) from certain colleagues she should raise this with the general manager. Failing that, if it’s a chain then go to HQ.

So, it's either question nothing or question everything? No middle ground for curiosity?

The way female athletes should just be nice when transwomen steal their trophies? The way women should just accept that transwomen are included in lists of rich and influential women? That's all fine, just be nicer.

I think what I find difficult is that I know she knows what the biological reality is, but there's a barrier to discussing anything gender related and I feel it's in part due to the mental load of her knowing one thing and accepting another as true in the face of that knowledge.

God what a mess. She can't deal with the cognitive dissonance of it all and I guess she's not alone there. Hold firm, she'll get there in the end.

Because it's true?

Thank you, that's what it is, cognitive dissonance. On the whole she's a feminist and furious at the patriarchy, but on the gender issue she just shuts down.

It’s not hard to keep up is it. Your DD is clearly able to keep up, she probably doesn’t want to talk about it with you as you don’t sound very accepting.

Jordan is definitely not just a male name btw. I’m sure some of the others aren’t either.

That's absolutely what I am saying, for real.

Srsly?

Not hard to keep up? Keep up with what? I've just discovered that the people she referred to as he and him with the male names, are, at least some of them, female and I'm curious about the mental load on her to be aware of the biological facts and ignore them to be 'nice'.

I didn’t say anything about trans women competing in women’s sport. I think there should be separate categories for that, or an extra mixed sex category if anyone wishes to compete in that.

But regarding teenagers just wanting to earn some money at a part time/Saturday job in a pizza place - why the need to be suspicious? Why the need to question them?

Sure as hell seems like they’re not offending anyone by merely existing. So what if they want to go by a different name. So what if they’re figuring out who they are. So what if they want to go by a pronoun that you personally don’t agree with. So what?

Jordan may be a unisex name now, but it is a traditionally male name.

I've got a male cousin call Lynne, lived with a guy called Lyndsey for years, and had a female childhood friend called Michael so I know that a 'male sounding' or 'female sounding' name isn't a sure thing, but if I introduced you to my friend Katie, you might be surprised if he was a 6'2" bloke with a beard.

A) Thin end of the wedge.

B) I'm not being suspicious!

C) If I say I'm a man will I get the same pay differential as males do?

I'm unbelievably proud of her.

The title of the thread is literally ‘To think it’s a lot of mental effort to keep up with gender these days?’ I’m answering the question.

Im sure she understands way more than you think, it sounds like she does. Younger people are a lot more accepting. She doesn’t need to ignore biological facts to be nice, she is just being nice regardless.

If I say I'm a man will I get the same pay differential as males do?

I’m not a man, nor am I in a job where I decide who gets paid what, so I can’t really answer that unfortunately.

But I assume if you go through gender reassignment surgery and have ‘male’ added to your birth certificate and other legal documents as per the Gender Recognition Act - then probably. Maybe. Who knows? Try it?

I’m in my early 20’s so I suppose I’m more likely to be exposed to this and I really don’t think it takes any mental gymnastics. I’ve only ever met 1 trans man and 1 non-binary person. I misgendered the non-binary person, they corrected me, and we moved on. It’s really not difficult and I encounter it so infrequently, even when being at uni/living in a diverse area etc that I can’t understand why anyone would think it’s hard to keep up with.

Where did I say I couldn't 'keep up'?

What I'm talking about is the mental load involved in knowing that objectively a person is one sex while referring to them as the other, or as a plural.

I keep up, but I don't like it and I am questioning it. In the vast majority of cases, we can all, but women better than men, tell the sex of another person from quite some distance, so referring to them as the opposite takes work.

Why would I have to go through gender reassignment surgery? I thought people could just say what they wanted to be these days? I mean if a man says he's a woman, you'll call him a woman, so...?

Soooo…. The take home message from you is we should get pizza from shops with female workers (or people with vaginas) as they are more hygienic and don’t touch their genitals. But it’s hard these days as some of the women look like men, so you might be missing out on good pizza coz you thought they were men ?????

😂