To think it’s a lot of mental effort to keep up with gender these days?

[Oodiks]

My 18 yo daughter recently started work at a pizza place and she’s been telling me how much more she likes this place than the last pizza place she worked at.

She didn’t want to bring food home from the first place, partly because she didn’t trust the industrial pizza dough that came on pallets, but mostly because it was all teenage boys working there and they didn’t wear gloves to prepare the food. The new place is better because they do wear gloves to prepare the food and it’s not all teenage boys.

I was a little confused, because all the names she’s mentioned, pretty much, are boy’s names, Milo is the only one I remember, but it’s all been boy’s names except for one person with a girl’s name, who she calls her work best friend. I comment and she’s, like, OMG, don’t make assumptions, it’s a very gender diverse place. But she does agree that females tend to be more hygiene aware, and we leave it like that.

But it leaves me uncomfortable. She clearly knows that these ‘boys’ are in fact girls, but can’t bring herself to say it, although she acknowledges by saying that these ‘boys’ are clean whereas she didn’t trust the ‘other boys’ to wash their hands.

What kind of mental gymnastics does that take?

It doesn't take any mental gymnastics. You respect what people wish to be addressed as and don't judge. Makes no difference to you and all the difference to them. Your daughter sounds lovely

Ah the myth of it being kind and respectful to adhere to the demands of pronouns.

Nope. People who demand others to use wrong sex pronouns are not respectful. They are asserting power and being disrespectful to the beliefs of others because it is an imposition and expectation.

Well, as long as they're all female, at least there's no issue with toilet access. Until Candi, Nikki, Hailie and Katy turn up and need to shave their beards off in the toilets with her.

I’m not at all confused. You must lead an incredibly narrow and sheltered life if you’ve not come into contact with girls with questionable hygiene and boys with good hygiene.

Are you suggesting that the ability to be clean enough to work responsibly in food preparation is dependent upon genitals, and that personal identity is irrelevant? So you can choose a male name, and a male identity but you will still instinctively follow female stereotypes because being as ‘gross’ as a boy is a step too far?

What a strange skew you’ve put on this. Perhaps one workplace has better training or standards than the other. This seems a desperate attempt to shoehorn a gender debate in just for the sake of argument.

As far as I know they have unisex bathrooms which include, toilet, sink, hand dryer etc. So that's not really an issue.

…and a sex stereotype is bad if it means that half the population are perceived to be incapable of something (that they can reasonably do), or if one sex is held to a higher standard than the other.

What is this "spectrum" that we're all on? Sex is bimodal, not a spectrum. Every human (indeed, every mammal) is either male or female.

If you're talking about "gender", you'll need to define what you mean by that before claiming it's a spectrum.

No, I don't think it's a lot of mental effort. Doesn't sound like it is for your DD either.

What spectrum are you talking about?

Sex? Sex is not on any spectrum. Sex is boringly and consistently binary. Only bodies formed around producing large gametes and bodies formed around producing small gametes. No gametes need to be produced for those guidelines to be still true. No person in the world has produced both gametes at the same time.

Encouragingly my dc ( a bit younger) seem to find it all ridiculous so I’ve got fingers crossed it is a generational thing and it’s already petering out as the younger children reach adolescence.

And the same people who get surprising with their pronouns label me cis. Against my wishes.

As I say. Power. Its all about power and control.

But this is nonsense. Sex is not a spectrum. And there is nothing kind about lying.

Yep. I wish I could remember where I saw a recent survey and whether I saved it.

Basically, most middle aged and old people know that gender ideology is bullshit.

Many teens and most younger teens are completely over it - people who spout on about it are tedious and uncool.

It's those in their 20s and 30s who are most likely to be full on TWAW.

Men are men. Women are women. I just ignore all the other fluff, at the end of the day its pointless.

Ah that’s interesting it’s been surveyed with that result.

I think it would be more accurate to say that some sex affected characteristics are bimodal, but sex itself is binary.

This.

Don't misgender one of them because it's literal genocide don't you know! The ridiculousness of it all. Me, me, me, look at me, then if you do look and get it wrong, heavens above. I mean who knew a mere dress and dangly earrings made a 👩 I am a man most of the week since I wear trousers! Who knew.

Have you thought at all about the possibility that the second pizza place has a manager who tells staff to wash their hands, puts up reminder signs, highlights the importance, provides wash basins and allows time for scrubbing, etc. and the first one doesn't?

And that it's you who has imagined it all involving 'boys', 'girls', 'girls with boys' names', your daughter being 'best friends with the girl who isn't actually a boy' and so on?

Ah, we just have to wait until the clowns realise its bullshite, you are either a nan ie a woman due to biological sex.

Exactly this

This is the most likely scenario.

Oh dear. Typo fail

Either a man or a woman, biological sex matters

And who knew that a todger betwixt the thighs does not necessarily betoken a male. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Unfortunately, I don't think it's a case that the clowns grow out of it.

More that those currently middle aged and older already had a strong understanding of biological sex and enough life experience to understand why it matters when gender ideology became widespread.
Less likely to be groomed into believing in gender woo on social media than those in their 20s and 30s.
Likely to have friends grounded in reality.

I think it will be very difficult to convince the true believers in their 20s and 30s that it's bullshit.
They might continue believing into middle age and beyond.