To think we’ve got it wrong about gender identity in children

[Itsmyshadow]

I have a 9 year old daughter who doesn’t fit the typical gender stereotype for a girl. She loves football, gaming and Pokémon. From a very young age she’s liked “boys” things, has always gravitated towards friendships with boys, and between the ages of 4 and 7 was quite adamant that she was a boy not a girl.

As her mum I’ve therefore taken a keener interest in gender discussions and what children are told about gender than I otherwise would have. Being completely transparent for this thread, I would very much prefer she remains a girl as her life will be so much more straightforward if that is the case.

As parents we have therefore done everything we can to help her get comfortable in who she is as a girl. We focus on the success of women in sport as much as men, watch lots of women’s football and will be watching the women compete in the olympics and paraolympics and celebrating how well they all do (we will watch the men too). DD now plays for a girl’s football team and boy’s football team (having only previously played for the boys team), and through sport has has met and made friends with girls who are much more like her.

At present she is happily identifying as a girl. I know this is a very fragile status however.

This is why I am so annoyed that in schools, primary schools, children are being taught that people can change their gender. Last year at DD’s school they had a “Pride Day” and invited an external pressure group in to do workshops with the kids, in which they were told sex is “assigned at birth according to what a doctor observes” and were shown pictures of the man presenting in dresses and told people can change their gender. We opted DD out of this workshop, but another child told her afterwards that she was a boy and should change her gender.

Why are we telling school kids this who are too young to understand? I feel this does so much damage to kids like my DD.

Shouldn’t we stop promoting a trans ideology and instead be telling children that they can be whoever they want to be regardless of their biological sex?

I feel so much good could be done by overtly celebrating women’s achievements (including those who have excelled in sport or in the army) both overtly on International Women’s Day and more subtly e.g. setting a passage to read and answer questions on about Rosa Parks or the England Women’s Football team. Same for men, schools could really celebrate the successes of men who do not meet a traditional male stereotype.

If schools really focused on driving home the message that men and women can be whoever they want to be and that their sex does not constrain them, I really feel most of the gender uncertainty in young people would go away, and we could save young people a whole load of mental and potentially physical trauma.

Couldn't agree more, all we're doing is confusing kids. I was a massive tom boy as a child and hated anything girly, some of that nonsense would of honestly been making me question myself!

I only mentioned the late 80s because that's when my first child was born, and not really clued up on what happened before. I know in my 70s childhood there was a lot of sex based stereotyping and that it wasn't something I wanted to replicate for my children.

You're completely correct. It's also a product of today's over genderised culture. When I was a young girl I was into Pokémon and sport, no one once suggested to me these were boy activities, they were considered gender neutral back then.

This is key, tbh, instilling confidence in them about their choices if they are 'non-conforming' in any way. That ppl WILL question them, WILL be cruel or, perhaps worse, try to diagnose them. We need to give them the tools to deal with those things in the knowledge that the problem is entirely the other person's, not theirs.

I agree. My cousin was what was known as a tomboy. She loved football, wore boys clothes rather than girls. As she got older her friends were mainly men, she drank pints and even joined a male dominated career.

She still prefers men’s clothes over women’s but she is proud to be female.

We talked about this recently and she said if she had grown up in today’s world, she would have believed she was meant to be male. 30 years ago that wasn’t a thing we had ever heard of. She explained how scary that thought is especially as she is a mother now and that wouldn’t have been able to happen.

children should not be able to make these decisions and certainly not influenced.

I’m not saying I don’t believe any of it but we have 14 trans teens in our school of 900. Is it really that common?

We have yet to ever hear a story that doesn't start with " he always liked to dance and wear dresses, we thought at first he might be gay at 2) it should be so obvious it's all stereotypes m. When did adults become so thick. What caused this inability to think.

This is also the biggest frustration for me. So close to breaking stereotypes about boys and girls being put into boxes of acceptable behaviour/likes/presentation for their sex. The gender ideology comes along, reinforcing those stereotypes with titanium walls.

I have a teenage girl and as you can imagine this is a hot topic in our household. We have had conversations about how she identifies. The answer was mum, I identify as me and I’m happy being me.

I think you're right in that there's an accepted phrase "tomboy" for a girl who doesn't fit stereotypes but no equivalent for boys who don't "conform" to stereotypes

YANBU and I'm so glad my children were young when they were.

DS1 was at 8 (so 11-12 years ago) when he told me he sometimes wished he was a girl. What he meant was that he wished it was socially acceptable to be a bit who loved sewing, dancing, craft, and other traditionally "girl" things.

Instead of transing him I, and the school, looked at other males who like that kind of thing (teaching kids that Wolverine, aka Hugh Jackman, tap dances is great!) And did lessons around accepting people whatever their hobbies and interests.

He's now a proud and happy gay man who still loves to dance, although doesn't sew these days.

I want to go out and skywrite ‘There are as many ways to be a girl as there are girls on the planet. You are you and you are perfect’ and just have it there every day. I cannot understand how all the progress we made in swiping away sex stereotypes has been so comprehensively undone. I was a child in the 70s. I wore my boy cousins’ hand me down clothes, I played Lego and cars and loved cricket and ALSO loved cooking and had Sindy dolls. I was completely normal. So were all the other girls. So were all the boys with long hair and brightly coloured anoraks and crimplene flares who played with their sisters and sisters’ friends, and nobody thought anyone was ‘wrong’.

DH and I can’t have children, but we are now so glad we aren’t having to try to help teens and young adults navigate this bewildering and narrow world where, despite the massively increased opportunities and knowledge available to them, they are being squeezed into the narrowest stereotypes in most of history. It’s shameful.

I was exactly the same as your daughter as a child. I was the only girl on the football team, wore boys clothes and hung around with mostly boys. Not once did I ever think oh I'm a boy as back then it wasn't a 'thing'.
Now as an adult yes I do like to wear dresses and skirts for work and special occasions but you'll normally catch me in a hoody/jumper and comfy clothes.
I totally agree with how you've managed the situation with your daughter and will be the same if my children feel the same. I may get shot down for this but in my opinion people are too quick to make judgements and push opinions down young children's throats. Let them grow up and be innocent like we were.

Couldn’t agree more OP.

I worked in a school for years, and I can’t even tell you how many children changed from boy to girl then back to boy and visa versa. It was made way too easy for them to do so, with name changes allowed on the register and instant staff meetings to tell
us what they would now be called.

Never once was it suggested to do things the way you have said, this would have helped to stop such alot of psychological damage to children that don’t understand the enormity of what they are doing.

I think it is really confusing for little kids. What should be taught, if anything, in this case is the opposite - not if you like football then you must be a boy, but it's ok to like XY and Z or dress in a skirt or shorts if you are a boy or girl, and it's it what you like or how you dress that makes a difference as to what sex you are. And when they are a bit older that it doesn't matter which sex you are attracted to, it doesn't mean then you have to change gender and be opposite to your partner.

Even before transgender issues came to the fore my daughter was told by little kids in reception class that because she wore shorts with her uniform and had bobbed hair she must be a boy.

And DD2 (15) when they were in Y6 only a few years ago their sex education course was from about 20 years earlier and didn't even mention being attracted to a person who is the same sex as you.

I cannot conceive how anyone could think this is unreasonable. But it looks like 6% think you are. Would be interesting to hear from them why...

You are definitely not alone In thinking all that you do!! I agree and thousands of others do aswell if not millions of others. I think you were right to opt out of the workshop and I would ask school for any future workshops or similar content to be notified well in advance and id pull out of all of it. Even if my child was adamant they weren’t sure they were the gender they were I would STILL keep them away from any of this to every extent I could. Best of luck to you. X

I agreed with everything you wrote and applauded all that you have done for your daughter and to uphold respect for the status of girls and women until:

"Shouldn’t we stop promoting a trans ideology and instead be telling children that they can be whoever they want to be regardless of their biological sex?"

To me, that seems contradictory and encapsulates the thinking that lies behind the problem of children being led and confused.

It really wouldn't

It’s nothing new, Enid Blyton, bless her, characterised it in the character of George in the Famous Five books of the 1950s. Feisty George hated all the silly homemaking crap that the soppy Anne liked - she wanted the adventure and the rough and tumble like the boys.

The narrative back then was that she was a ‘tomboy’. Blyton’s characterisation acknowledged the anger and the frustration of George being held back by gender stereotyping but it was fine. It was normal and she was heroic. I’m sure lots of girls read those books and related.

We just need alternative and healthy narratives that fit our children.

And transing them isn’t it.

Absolutely OP. I too was a girl with short hair who preferred boy activities and clothes.

I still find men easier. Only ever house shared with men as a student, never been on a hen do, been a bridesmaid, had my nails done etc, etc.

But I am a woman and a mother.

I never really thought about it too much. I just got on with it.

Still today I couldn't think of anything worse than a spa day or getting dressed up for ladies day. I'd rather pitch a tent or climb a mountain. But that has everything to do with my personality and interests and bugger all to do with my sex (or gender whatever that is).

Girls like your daughter have always existed. They traditionally grow up to be strong, determined and successful women.

Yes, quite. When I was little I was very traditionally girly in some ways, I always wanted to wear skirts and dresses and as much pink as possible. But I also liked things that were traditionally more for boys like playing football and cricket, and trains and cars. I wonder how that would be treated now- that I was confused what gender I identified as than that I just liked a wide range of things which were ok whether you were a boy or a girl? It seems to be reinforcing gender stereotypes. Oddly enough I have gone into quite a male dominated area of work and still like football. But I wore a pink sequinned dress and silver platform sandals to the summer party!

Information about Pop ‘n’ Olly here. Should not be in schools in my view.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/dorset-ideological-capture/

YANBU - My oldest son loved pink, abd barbies and dressing up when he was little. He's now a strapping 17 year old who loves his motorbike and sports. I just let him be himself at all stages and embraced all stages. All children need is love and acceptance.

I was an 80s child. I attended school in the days that girls were not allowed to wear trousers . Play rugby etc

Now don't get me wring I hated it. Many girls did. We all thought it was unfair etc. But no one reacted the way people react now. There was no crying about identities and how wearing skirts made them want to hurt/kill themselves.

And we certainly were not tripping over the bodies of children who couldn't cope not being able to wear the " right" clothes.

Why are we teaching kids to be so dependent on others for their self worth/identity. Why are we telling them that they will be depressed and kill themselves if they can't do everything they want all the time. However do we think they will cope in the world after school when tbey have to follow rules, meet targets, dress a certain way fir jobs etc