Page 9 | Why do a lot of men seem to think it's 1954 not 2024?

G123456789 · 2024-07-09T18:14:41+00:00

I have been on here for a while and it seems that women seem to be expected to do the bulk of child care, housework, have jobs and manage everything to do with the house from renewing tv licences to employing all trades people. In real life I know several men like this. They work, have their hobbies, go to the pub, have weekends away with the lads. Of course I also know men that pull their weight. But child care and housework seems to be women's work. Why does it get put up with? Is it because their mothers did everything for them? Im male but have always discussed and agreed with my wife who does what. Until a couple of years ago I worked 70+ hours a week at this time of year so she did most things. I'm retired now so have a nice cleaning rota, manage her business accounts but still have time to see my mates etc... I suppose I'm asking aibu for asking why their isn't a fair balance in most partnerships.

GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 10/07/2024 13:44

I was raised in a quite “traditional” set up - not just the SAHM and go-out-to-work father but also the idea that women don’t have “proper” jobs because you’ll get married, stay at home and have children, and that men are just that bit more important. Ideas which I firmly rejected

So when I moved in with my then partner, I valued the fact that we’d agreed to split everything 50/50 and that he was self-sufficient, having been brought up to pull his weight.

It didn’t last. Despite his upbringing/self-sufficiency, I think he hankered after a traditional set up and was always trying to “get away with” doing less than his share. When we separated it was a huge relief for me because my resentment of him was growing, and I knew it was only ever going to get worse. I did not want to spend the rest of my life in a battleground over laundry.

So it’s not even the case that a good start reaps rewards, some men do genuinely just want to be the lazy Man Of The House with a wife to do all the work for them.

I’ve stayed single and I’m all the happier for it!

JenniferBooth · 10/07/2024 13:53

Weetabbix · 10/07/2024 06:03

With respect, I expect this is because your circle is fairly middle class/ well educated/ respectable.

My circle is like this too and the culture is that men and women generally share the load, including me and DH, although there's still an inherent gender imbalance when it comes to work and pay with men generally in the higher paid jobs. But most people have awareness of this, at least.

There is however a large proportion of the UK (and the world) where it is absolutely not like this.

The area I grew up, and where most of my family still live, is much more socially deprived, and there are some awful attitudes which persist there about what men and women are like/ what they should do/ how they should behave, etc.

So just because you only know 1 couple like this, doesn't mean that it is not still a huge issue. There are many places in the UK where these views and behaviours are still prevalent.

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Yes im working class and child free by choice and my choice was seen as very unusual

JenniferBooth · 10/07/2024 13:59

Cremeroulety · 10/07/2024 05:45

Ugh these are the selectively traditional men. When I was single I remember talking to a man in his early 30s like this. Spent all his time in the gym, didn’t have clear career goals and was doing yet another degree while doing part time casual work so wasn’t really the “provider” type .

He didn’t believe women shouldnt work after kids but he was traditional in wanting women to be submissive. He once said he would “help” in the house, but it was clear he seen it as a woman’s responsibility.

OP, I think part of the issue is they’re doing what they seen their parents do and also a lot of men will happily do the bare minimum unless they have women who don’t stand for it. I don’t tolerate it at all which is probably why I’ve never been seriously involved with a guy who expects me to carry the domestic load if we are both working.

I think it speaks to a wider issue in society that men are socialised more to stick sharp elbows out and do what’s best for them,in every situation - while women are raised to be people pleasers who serve others and put their needs last . That is why some misogynist men get so angry at women who choose not to have children and/or stay single.

I have a friend, both her and her partner work similar hours. They have two kids but she does most of the shopping, organises and pays for all presents (they don’t have joint finances) when the kids were younger she sorted the childcare too and she speaks to the school about any issues. She seems to do most of the cleaning too. Her partner does very little except for cooking a couple of times a week . He spends his time playing computer games and smoking weed.

She’s often short on money for things including for the kids while he is spending his money on weed. I have asked why she puts up with it and she doesn’t reallly have an answer so I don’t listen to her complain about it anymore because it’s so boring and pointless tbh if she’s not going to do anything about it.

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Agree but if you go on the "who should pay on dates" threads you will get the insistence (from women who are falling over themselves to prove that they are not gold diggers) that men who go 50/50 on dates all the time must behave with equality in mind everywhere else. But they dont, If they did this thread wouldnt exist. Selective equality is a good term for it.

Singlespies · 10/07/2024 14:24

Many middleclass professional men want the benefit of a high earning wife (cos, money), but don't want to pull their weight at home. So, the woman just ends up exhausted.

Thepeopleversuswork · 10/07/2024 14:33

Singlespies · 10/07/2024 14:24

Many middleclass professional men want the benefit of a high earning wife (cos, money), but don't want to pull their weight at home. So, the woman just ends up exhausted.

Yes but at least if she’s earning she can leave with relatively little friction.

GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin · 10/07/2024 14:48

JenniferBooth · 10/07/2024 13:59

Agree but if you go on the "who should pay on dates" threads you will get the insistence (from women who are falling over themselves to prove that they are not gold diggers) that men who go 50/50 on dates all the time must behave with equality in mind everywhere else. But they dont, If they did this thread wouldnt exist. Selective equality is a good term for it.

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I believe that the equity is often a transitory illusion.

I was certainly most cheesed off to find the initial equity was followed by a massive backslide. As if now he’d “earned” the right to sit back and have the little woman run the domestic side of things, having put in sufficient effort at the beginning to “catch” me.

Fuck that shit.

MightyGoldBear · 10/07/2024 15:11

I think an awful lot can be put down to men not respecting women. Some having a low level genuine dislike/indifference for women.

Some of it is entitlement and just pure abuse. If you want to call it low level abuse or just abuse its still abuse.

What we need is more men asking other men why don't you want to change? Judging them, holding a higher expectation. We also need to realise what some of these men truly are like. As in a lot of them haven't learnt the skills of empathy they are truly operating from such a immature selfish perspective with no ability to not just look at how their actions or non action is affecting anyone else but also the want to even look.

Integrity is something I see lacking in lots of men. They are saying the right things in person at work to keep up appearances so it doesn't negatively effect anyones view of them. Yet when no one is watching they are not upholding those beliefs they claim to have. Unfortunately untill they are met with negative consequences so much of this won't change.

Interesting latest episode on diary of a ceo was talking about how men have lost their place in society.

But in a society that is set up for men all the platforms are there for them to interact with to change. I think we have to accept so many men do not want equality.

Threewordseightletters · 10/07/2024 18:29

I'll try to obscure the details of this but someone told me a child didn't have the right PE kit today as their mum was out last night and dad doesn't know how to use the tumble dryer.

JenniferBooth · 10/07/2024 18:32

Threewordseightletters · 10/07/2024 18:29

I'll try to obscure the details of this but someone told me a child didn't have the right PE kit today as their mum was out last night and dad doesn't know how to use the tumble dryer.

ive never ever regretted my decision to remain child free and its because of shit like this

Missamyp · 10/07/2024 18:35

Threewordseightletters · 10/07/2024 18:29

I'll try to obscure the details of this but someone told me a child didn't have the right PE kit today as their mum was out last night and dad doesn't know how to use the tumble dryer.

That is a definite LTB.😴

Justasleep · 10/07/2024 18:46

What can you do if you ARE strong, expect him to step up and he doesn’t, leaves you and the kids and starts a second family with a young woman from work who does the bulk of everything as he was her boss relying on her extended family to help?? While you are run ragged looking after young kids including one with significant SEN and no family support

anotherside · 10/07/2024 18:51

nutbrownhare15 · 09/07/2024 20:25

Zawn Villanes argues that it's a form of abuse. Essentially men and women from birth get messages that men's time is more important then women's and that work in the home is women's work. Often it can feel quite subtle before kids. It's manageable to do the lion's share of tasks at home and for the couple to pretend that things are equal because he does very occasional outside jobs and DIY and puts the bins out once a week. Once kids arrive the work multiplies and so does the inequality. Maternity leave is great but doesn't help. The mother is now typically getting a lot less sleep because her sleep is less important because 'he works', as the primary caregiver she can struggle to get any time away from the baby as the child 'just wants her' and she takes on the mental load of researching and buying things the baby needs which he typically has no idea about or doesn't care about. She has less income and is often expected to contribute on an equal basis to household expenses. Or he might expect her to do everything at home even at weekends because 'he works hard and needs a break'. When she goes back to work her job is somehow less important and she is the one who needs to take time off when the kid is ill. So it's narratives around the primacy of paid work and the primacy of men's paid work in particular which excuse various forms of male entitlement. I think it's also a significant cause of the gender pay gap because it reduces women's ability to focus on their careers.

Agree with this, but think women are just as responsible for perpetuating it as men.

Doubledenim305 · 11/07/2024 17:50

SiriAlexa · 09/07/2024 20:22

I agree with @Notsogood24

The entitlement is very ingrained. My DH is completely comfortable with me doing all the washing, cooking most meals, most of the washing up, all of the tidying and everything school related. He is amazing at DIY, manages finances and mows the lawn. We both work full time. Most evenings I’m still cleaning and tidying until bedtime and he is relaxing on the sofa. I am too weak to stand up to him as I know it will end the marriage. It’s pathetic, I know.

Please. Stand up to him.
Just stop providing the service. Stop cleaning, stop making the tea and join him relaxing on the sofa.
If he wants it done, then there's a conversation to be had.
I definitely wouldn't tolerate that. Men just let u do it till u say no. They don't think like women.

TruthorDie · 11/07/2024 17:56

Missamyp · 10/07/2024 18:35

That is a definite LTB.😴

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My vagina would be sealed shut after that revelation.

DrSK2 · 11/07/2024 17:59

Because their wives do not have any negotiating power. The negotiating power comes from economic independence, status in society, and simply some assertiveness to stand up for themselves.

rosegoldJune · 11/07/2024 19:40

My exH was exactly like this, because he worked so much harder than me (his words) so deserved to go on nights out & lounge around the house, buy himself expensive clothes whilst I had clothes that were old & threadbare. I looked after the house, the kids, my granddaughter & had a part time job, never went out apart from doing the food shop, he expected his food to be cooked for him when got in from work but wouldn’t eat what everyone else had so I had to do separate meals for him, his washing had to be done, meds collected from the the pharmacy, insurance sorted out, when we split up & stayed in the house till he found somewhere else I had to sleep on the sofa because again he was the most hardworking & deserved the bed, then when he left my then 17yr old DS had to teach his dad how to use the cooker & washer in his new home, we had such a laugh about it, luckily my son was mainly in my care throughout his childhood so learnt how to do things for himself & be independent!

Jayne35 · 11/07/2024 19:53

It is getting better slowly. We both work FT, similar hours but DH has a busier life in general, hobbies, involvement in local things and nights out, hols with his mates (I do hols with mates too, as well as away time together) He does all the house maintenance and gardening as well as the cooking, I do the cleaning and ironing, which suits me as I don't mind cleaning but hate cooking.

BlueFlowers5 · 11/07/2024 20:55

My exH cooked every night for three years as I worked full time. Admittedly I did the laundry, and cleaning, changing beds etc.
After three years he stopped doing anything - would make even a cup of tea. I didn't immediately spot this and we moved in together.
I assumed things would be equal because for three years it was.

Doubledenim305 · 11/07/2024 21:05

Sdpbody · 10/07/2024 10:34

I lot of it is lack of strength in women.

My DH does at least 50% of everything but that's because I was never going to put up with less.

He played golf a few months ago with some friends for the first time and was gone for 8 hours. The second he got home, I left to stay with a friend and came home on Sunday afternoon. (Not in a shitty way, more of "glad you had a 8 hour break, now I'm off for mine"). He hasn't played golf again.

If you allow men to treat you this way, they will continue.

Yip. Totally agree. You got to be firm.

Bangwam1 · 11/07/2024 21:13

SiriAlexa · 09/07/2024 20:22

I agree with @Notsogood24

The entitlement is very ingrained. My DH is completely comfortable with me doing all the washing, cooking most meals, most of the washing up, all of the tidying and everything school related. He is amazing at DIY, manages finances and mows the lawn. We both work full time. Most evenings I’m still cleaning and tidying until bedtime and he is relaxing on the sofa. I am too weak to stand up to him as I know it will end the marriage. It’s pathetic, I know.

It will end the marriage when you finally crack and leave.

Make him help you and then both sit down, you got this. If he argues, stop doing most of it until he gets off his arse and helps. Don’t even mention it (they kind of love it when you nag because then you’re the bad one) just stop doing it.

Stop everything you do for him. Trust me, he knows what he is doing and he knows you’re under his control.

Bangwam1 · 11/07/2024 21:23

SiriAlexa · 09/07/2024 20:22

I agree with @Notsogood24

The entitlement is very ingrained. My DH is completely comfortable with me doing all the washing, cooking most meals, most of the washing up, all of the tidying and everything school related. He is amazing at DIY, manages finances and mows the lawn. We both work full time. Most evenings I’m still cleaning and tidying until bedtime and he is relaxing on the sofa. I am too weak to stand up to him as I know it will end the marriage. It’s pathetic, I know.

If your partner is anything like mine..do it by text unless you like word salad (when they deny it irritates and can lead to fighting). Be stern.

An example is my partner leaving the kitchen a mess after I had prepared a nice meal. I told him the next day via msg that this was unacceptable and I won’t be cooking again.

Come down hard. No emotion. Like a teacher. The unevolved male responds like a dog (sorry men) to clear, unemotional training.

DisabledDemon · 11/07/2024 21:35

One of the biggest annoyances complete piece of utter fuckwittery is when you lose your rag with some twat of a bloke and he tells your husband to control you. I have two pieces of advice for antediluvian cunts like this:

Join the 21st century
Prepare to die

lisaevans · 11/07/2024 22:30

I am this woman. I do 90% unless I have a meltdown. Twice a year maybe when everything gets too much. I don't enable, I say what I think- but it doesn't get me anywhere. I can't leave- would have nowhere to go and couldn't leave my dog. 1 day maybe. Sometimes people are stuck and hate how they live. Some of us are just trying to get by and I'd rather not do that living in a shit tip and microwave meals.

Labourdayz · 11/07/2024 22:30

My partner does his fair share of childcare and cleaning but I lead of all the decisions, I mean every single one and that mental load is draining, especially with a SEN child in the mix. I have always earned more and am the financial person, having said that he’s always been awful
with money management, even before my time. When he has been given things to arrange he messes them up. I don’t take any prisoners but I can see it’s definitely not laziness, just a complete mental block. We’ve had to compromise on our happiness to an extent to prioritise the wellbeing of our child. All in all he does ok considering he is an older dad (nearly 60). There’s no excuse for those men in their 30’s! I have lots of friends who earn less/don’t work and that seems to give their husbands carte blanche to go off on golfing weekends all the time, the subtext being they earn this through being the main wage earner. Personally I couldn’t deal with that, it’s very ‘Mad Men’
I have many more weekends away than my partner tbh.

Sandflea9900 · 11/07/2024 23:26

melmos · 09/07/2024 21:46

Can I just say what a fantastic thread this is with thought provoking contributions - I agree with almost everything to a certain degree.

I'm in a relationship with someone who is always happy to help, will do anything I ask house wise (the task is often built up for days), but absolutely everything sits in ky head space my and thats why i am considering leaving as I dont want to resent him if we have children, however id like to have children so im considering staying as I'm over 35. I worry for him if I left as I don't think he can look after himself

And there in lies the problem: “happy to help”. By definition that says he is helping you with chores that are, by default yours. This is the thinking we have to stop. Housework is not women’s work that some men graciously help us with. It’s work that needs doing in a household and needs to be shared fairly.