Why do a lot of men seem to think it's 1954 not 2024?

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I have been on here for a while and it seems that women seem to be expected to do the bulk of child care, housework, have jobs and manage everything to do with the house from renewing tv licences to employing all trades people.
In real life I know several men like this. They work, have their hobbies, go to the pub, have weekends away with the lads.
Of course I also know men that pull their weight. But child care and housework seems to be women's work.
Why does it get put up with?
Is it because their mothers did everything for them?

Im male but have always discussed and agreed with my wife who does what. Until a couple of years ago I worked 70+ hours a week at this time of year so she did most things. I'm retired now so have a nice cleaning rota, manage her business accounts but still have time to see my mates etc...

I suppose I'm asking aibu for asking why their isn't a fair balance in most partnerships.

I was thinking about this too this morning. I do so much round the house; cooking, shopping, ironing, folding laundry, bins out, house/car Insurance, tradespeople, pets, changing sheets etc etc. He says, "thank you but you don't need to, just leave it". So maybe it is "my fault" and maybe he knows, deep down, I will just do it. I fear it will pile up, stress me out and be hard to get back on top.

His standards are much lower than mine. He does his share of cleaning, and does cook and put washing on. Little bit of DIY. Both work FT and kids grown.

Most of my friends have similar. One friend's dh has just retired and she still does it all.

I think it's conditioning, however I knew he had lower standards when we met so he's not changing.

But why are you continue to feed into this set up if you don’t agree with it? In your shoes l would not be doing a 200 mile round trip weekly to your mums. I would be discussing your mothers needs and how you can both meet them. Whether that’s through paid care or doing it yourselves. Plus making clear you are in credit so he needs to take main responsibility for a while

I'm not convinced it's conscious though. I think once kids arrive, it's very easy for men to transfer their feelings and assumptions about their mother onto their partner. It feels as natural as breathing, and to be fair, it feels natural for many women to do the domestic stuff because they've been exposed to all these assumptions too.

The answer is probably that women stop living with the fuckers and procreating with them. The rot sets in properly once children are born. I also agree it’s worse now than years ago as women are expected to do all the domestic duties and manage a career/work.

Children are lovely and bring reward but the people I know who didn’t have any have retired early, are in great health and living fulfilling lives, some in couples and some not.

I’m a mother of sons. As soon as they could feasibly do things, they had to do them. They did their own washing, cleaning and I taught them to cook. When they went to uni, I had zero concern about them managing. My eldest was in a supper club, where they used to cook lavish dinners, on a budget, for each other. My youngest organised a rota where each of them shopped and cooked one day a week. As adult men they are the ones who cook in their relationship and they share equally in childcare, cleaning etc. Their wives aren’t responsible for buying presents cards etc.

In fact my eldest seems to do everything 😂. He has a very good well paid job, he cooks, he cleans up, he pegs the washing out, he does the DIY, the garden, and he’s very hands on with his three kids.

I had to bring them up like this. I was a single parent, after DH left me to it and I went back into education and then trained and worked as a nurse.

I completely agree with all of this. Maternity leave needs to be handled very carefully. I was boundaried and did a few keeping in touch days which was helpful. When my husband initially went back to work after maternity leave then l complained l wasn’t doing enough round the house, for context we had 3.5 week old twins, l was recovering from a c section and pre-eclampsia. After the keeping in touch days and him being at home then he never said it again!

We had agreed for ages we would both drop some hours when l went back to work and for the twins to go to a childminder. At the last minute my husband tried an about turn, with instead him staying full time and me going very part time. I point blank refused as l had done maternity leave so had done more than my bit, plus l don’t find house work that thrilling either! l wanted to progress in my career and not reduce my pension contributions

I absolutely agree with this! 'My husband was nicer to me than my parents had been'... We're so happy with crumbs, aren't we? 🥺 It's hard to bootstrap yourself up to an equal partnership, and to expect mutual respect, when you were raised in a dysfunctional soup of simmering resentment and inequality and failure to communicate... I'm glad you've found therapy helpful.

Also - more light-heartedly - when you're young and you get away to a place of your own, it feels like fun to 'play house' and show you can take care of yourself, away from your parents. But it's harder to escape your parents' pattern of Mother doing everything in the house and Father absenting himself because it just feels like the norm.

And, like a PP, I eagerly took on the 'blue' jobs and ended up doing the gardening, the car maintenance (he doesn't drive), the decorating, the bins... as well as all the housework and cooking. The blue jobs looked like fun because men got such inordinate praise for doing them; women, I realised, not so much... 🤔

I lot of it is lack of strength in women.

My DH does at least 50% of everything but that's because I was never going to put up with less.

He played golf a few months ago with some friends for the first time and was gone for 8 hours. The second he got home, I left to stay with a friend and came home on Sunday afternoon. (Not in a shitty way, more of "glad you had a 8 hour break, now I'm off for mine"). He hasn't played golf again.

If you allow men to treat you this way, they will continue.

I was on mat leave and my DH came home at dinner time and asked where his dinner was in a very shitty tone. And I have genuinely only cooked dinner probably 25 times since 2018. I remind him of that day whenever he moans.

I think women really need to start inconveniencing men in order for them to understand.

Don't wash their clothes. Don't make them dinner. Don't put their clothes away. Walk out of the house on a Saturday and halt their plans.

You have to piss men off for them to understand. (Don't do this to obvious abusers, just leave)

Germaine Greer famously said (as a childless woman) nothing will change until we learn how we bring up our sons -
I do know men who peg washing out by haphazardly flinging it over the line then apply pegs at random, men who insist in cooking dinner for visitors,when the partner buys all the food and drink, shopping with a toddler and baby, husband cooks a fancy meal, uses every pan and appliance, leaves wifey to clear up but absorbs the credit.

My son at Uni was dismayed and disbelieving when in Halls, 5 of them, the others had never a washing machine or ever washed up! he left as was sick of coming in to a sink fullof dishes, then late nighter heating a can of mushroom soup in the only kettle.
His flat is neat clean tidy, but then he was well trained ha ha. Basic how to look after yourself we expect to be inherent but clearly it isn’t, poor parenting, which you rejected, good for you, your sons wives must love you, give thanks daily I would think.

This is absolutely spot on. You have to either ignore the moaning and keep repeating what your expectations are, or just get properly angry back at them. My DH was quite old fashioned, mum did everything at home, first wife did the same. When we got together and I suggested it was his turn to cook, he told me he couldn't, cos he didn't know how. Reader, he learned pronto, because I simply refused to do it (I hate cooking). Ditto housework. When my career took off and I was doing a lot of paid work, I simply let everything else drop, man-style. After a week or two of chaos, which I ignored, he started doing the laundry and housework and has done it since. He probably now does more than me, because I am admittedly quite lazy, though I still seem to be lumbered with all the mental load.

Increasingly women don't put up with it. The bulk of divorces are initiated by women. However, it does then mean that the bulk of separated mums become the primary carer and are still running themselves ragged, while Disney Dad has them every other weekend, leaving himself plenty of leisure time to moan about how unfair it all is 🙄.

I also agree with not feeding into stuff and downing tools when necessary. When l get asked stupid questions l just bat it back. E.g. “where’s my grey suit”. I ask where is your grey suit?! (Probably it’s screwed up in a ball, at the bottom of his wardrobe covered in grease / food stains). But he can find it himself, take it to the dry cleaners and / or have to find another outfit as the event is tomorrow

I also shoot down any framing of my husband “helping” me with things, whether it’s child or housework related. My mum once saw my husband clean the oven and still goes on about it. He uses the oven and so do l, why would l always be the one to clean it?!

Absolutely. But look at pretty much any thread on Mumsnet posted by a woman who has taken this advice. Particular examples which spring to mind are OPs who believe they deserve to prioritise their own wellbeing and happiness, or want to work on anything other than a part-time basis, or who refuse to do Wifework and are roundly rebuked for it, or who have taken the temeritous liberty of using their own family names after marriage rather than relinquishing these in favour of another family whose history they do not share.

The censorious tone of most of the responses, the accusations of 'selfishness' and 'having it all' (when was the last time you heard these phrases or reproaches used in the context of men?) makes it very clear where much of the pressure to conform to these regressive gendered 'norms' is coming from.

The patriarchy relies to no small extent on women to uphold its strictures by policing other women.That so many are so happy to do so is the question worthy of study. But if the motivation is that compliance will somehow prevent them from suffering in some way and at some time at the hands of this systemic inequality, then I have bad news.

It won't.

DB works offshore so is actually not physically available for months at a time. Hence the sweeping in for grand gestures during his leave. He’s generally supportive at a distance, but in terms of load, whether mental or physical, he’s not much use. He used to ring mum in a panic every February/ birthday/ anniversary and ask her to go to the florist to sort out flowers for DSIL, that’s the level I’m dealing with. He’ll go and stay with mum for a couple of days, do some shopping and chat to her and then that will be it for another six months.

As for why I visit weekly, well mum has Parkinson’s and dementia and has taken to her bed like the old lady in Allo Allo (she is capable of getting up, just chooses not to). I’m fortunate that we’ve always got on, I love her and I need to keep an eye on her as she declines, because no one else will. She has carers 4x a day, who feed her and keep her clean. They don’t do cleaning or laundry or shopping or gardening or fixing the house when it goes wrong. I do outsource as much as possible but I still have to source, arrange and manage people, which is so much effort at that distance that sometimes it’s really only saving me the petrol money, not time or effort.

Up to now she’s had enough capacity to refuse to move into residential care, and SS prefer to keep people at home as long as possible and won’t push it. To be frank I am waiting for her diminishing capacity to reduce to the point I can overrule her as PoA and move her to somewhere much more suitable and close to me where I can go back to being her daughter and not her surrogate parent.

I couldn't agree with this more. My nana was a stubborn woman who did as she please ( similar to my great grandmother by all accounts). She refused to comply to the social norms of the 1930s and was disowned by her family for marrying a man the did not approve of. That stubbornness persisted ( if not amlified) in my mother who took no shit from no one.

I was raised to be independent, to never be reliant on anyone. My brothers were not put on any kind of pedestal and were instructed to contribute to the household in the same way as me and my sister.

My partner would never ignore the house and leave it to me as I would not allow it. We lived in one house where we didn't have a dishwasher and the one thing we constantly argued over was the washing up as we both hated it. But we did it and then moved to a house with a dishwasher which he happily loads. 🤣

I don't have daughters but I do have sons and I make sure they do age appropriate chores, they live in the house so they contribute. I think the modern demonisation of getting kids to do chores may actually perpetuate this inequality.

It's funny, you know, but when I go around to a friend's house with the kids and they're making dinner, I instinctively say 'can I help?'. I set the table, I carry stuff to the table, dish the kids up, wipe down spills and help clear the table afterwards and leave the dishes where instructed. It would never occur to me to have someone running around after me and my children and not offer to help. Likewise, if I'm out with friends and their children, it's as natural as anything to split what needs to be done - put sunscreen on, take the kiddies to the loo, fetch food for everyone, run after them all in the playground.

This isn't one friend 'demanding' that another friend helps. No arguments. It's just that neither of us would dream of sitting on our arses being run after by someone else without at least offering to help. And that's in someone else's house too, not just in our own house.

The problem is not with women. Women shouldn't have to demand that men do their fair share.

Men need to change their mindset. If their partner isn't sitting down, they shouldn't be sitting down either.

I agree, things can start out evenly before kids then on mat leave when a woman is at home it makes sense for them to do more....but when a woman goes back to work there isn't always a readjustment to DH picking up more household tasks, childcare or mental load.
My DH does more cooking than me and creates a huge amount of clearing up and some food shopping and honestly thinks this equates to sharing the load.

I would happily look after everything at home if I didn't have a full time job. As would my DP.

I think there is an imbalance - woman have taken on work without the matter of the home-load being addressed.

@Caththegreat

But women still want to be provided for and have more kids than needed cos they love the hormones

What? I have never been provided for in my life and never wanted to. I have provided absolutely everything I own for my child. As for “loving the hormones” what does that even mean?

Herein lies the heart of the problem. Until women stop expecting to be “provided for” by men they will continue to have children with men who use them as unpaid labour and treat them with contempt. They will continue to have rock bottom standards.

When are going to stop being our own worst enemies? Provide for yourself and you no longer have to tolerate this shit.

We are not married

@Notsogood24 you need to get the hell out of dodge. If you’re not married you have no protection. What is the point of this man?

My XH did 50% and then when he had DC and I was a SAHM he still did his fair share. It was one of the key reasons I was drawn to him because we worked together and I picked up he was domesticated through daily chit chat.
I brought my DC up quite strictly in this and remember my 14yo DS grumbling when cleaning the toilet for the first time why should he be having to do it and I asked him why he thought it was ok for me to do did not him. I remember stacking his dirty dishes on his bed and various other stuff. I was considered an outlier and very strict in his friendship group but to be honest I can’t say whether any of that will stop him resting on his laurels if he lives with a woman prepared to cook his dinners every night !

After divorce very slowly the scales fell from my eyes watching my friends in decent marriages with men who would be horrified to be described as not doing their share but who actually do nothing like 50% it’s almost like sleight of hand.

I live alone and swore to myself when my DC left I would never again hear the words “What’s for dinner” directed at me

The censorious tone of most of the responses, the accusations of 'selfishness' and 'having it all' (when was the last time you heard these phrases or reproaches used in the context of men?) makes it very clear where much of the pressure to conform to these regressive gendered 'norms' is coming from.

That “have it all” phrase can get in the bin. That’s a perfect embodiment of women being their own worst enemies. As this PP rightly says men are not accused of “having it all” because they seek and achieve financial independence and a bit of quality time. It’s just taken as read.

Yes there are sometimes limitations to what we can achieve due to life circumstances. Sometimes we have to rely on our partners for a period of time. Sometimes if we have children who are sick or SEN it’s very hard. Yes to all this.

But seeking to “have it all” should be the starting point. If you don’t even try you can’t expect men to give you anything, can’t expect the world to give you anything and can’t expect your husband and family to respect you. It’s hard and it involves conflict but telling yourself you “can’t have it all” is more or less setting yourself up to fall at the first hurdle and when people use this phrase I have contempt for them. Stop fucking talking yourselves down.

So many men I know have never lived alone or with flatmates. They've gone from their family home and girlfriend. My husband lived alone for 3 years before me and his house was spotless. It would be a massive red flag for me if a man had never lived alone away from people to clean up his shit after him!