Thread 2 - Is anyone else on here pro-trans

[tinydaisies]

I was really enjoying the 1st thread, hopefully it's ok to have a follow on so we can continue debating

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5115405-to-ask-if-anyone-else-on-mn-is-not-anti-trans

Hopefully this isn't a TAAT.

98% of sexual offences are committed by men.
92% of violent offences are committed by men.
These statistics speak for themselves but will become very corrupted soon when 'women with a penis' who commit crimes will be recorded as female.
How can society protect women when it erodes the few safe guards we have in place? And how can it protect women when men who commit offences wearing a wig and some lipstick are recorded as female offenders.
I am not anti trans. I believe everyone should be able to wear what they want. What I do object to is vulnerable women being forced to share spaces with men. You only have hang around tin Tok and x to see what many these trans women get up to in the women's toilets - it's a fetish that is being enabled by the 'be kind' brigade.
I have always voted labour but I didn't this time. This is a ditch I'm prepared to die in. Our female ancestors work is being undermined and we need to stop the rot.

Nobody can discern the difference between a cross dresser and a transwoman. Both are men. Neither are welcome or have a right to the services that women need and deserve.

See, genderist arguments all fall apart without the coercion and gaslighting.

Yep - and to take my point a little further, not only do we attempt to ‘treat’ people with gender disphoria by affirming their beliefs about themselves, we ‘treat’ it by trying to force the rest of society to affirm it as well. Even if that infringes on the rights of others.

Apparently you think 'ts' are simply gay people who are at the 'extreme' end of a spectrum, @DianeAbbotsJamjars .

That's horribly homophobic.

Although I sent a screenshot to my 6'8, rugby playing, hairy biker cousin & he & his husband thought it was hilarious.

Live your life as who you want or need to be but do not trample all over my rights or ask me to lie.

What was it TRA Juno Dawson called gay men? Failed trans women. Homophobia runs through gender identity ideology like a stick of rock.

You are now discussing pseudo science I suspect. Science cannot 'transcend' the physical to ever make a male person a woman or vice versa. No matter how you wish it could happen in the future, unless a device is invented to turn back time and totally recreate a body from the atom level and change every cell in that body.

A male person has experienced life as a male person from the moment they were born and this shapes their life. In fact, it could be said that female people in some societies are still negatively discriminated against from conception. I doubt you can say the same about male people.

No person is born in the wrong body. No person claiming to be a woman but is male has any true concept of what being a 'woman' is. It is only their interpretation of womanhood.

If you cannot see this, then you will be disappointed if you hold onto the physical science will be transcended in any way to make what you wish to be true, true.

This thread won't be deleted. Discussing these issues are not 'hate'.

Quite a bit of conjecture you're implying there. Nothing is simple about this, Im simply asking for some tolerance. The spectrum isnt linear, its more like bidirectional, but that is not to say what you are implying is "manly men" cant or dont want to transition.

I see we are now the stage of the hyperbolic 'the thread will be deleted' because of so much 'hate'. Yet very few deletions have occurred.

I have such a morbid fascination re the level of brainwashing it takes for women to call themselves ‘cis’, or a ‘trans ally’

They claim to know several trans people (stastically impossible when genuine gender dysphoria is vanishingly rare) and parrot the gender ideology catechisms such as ‘transwomen are women’. They say they are achingly worried about the marginalised - and yet poor, working class women in prison, rape shelters etc don’t feature on their radar at all. They never call themselves a ‘woman ally’.

It’s just all so fucking Stepford and weird.

I know many women have always preened before men and sought cock cookies rather than sisterhood. There were always ‘girls’ girls’ and, well, the opposite. But this is next level.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about porn in the wrong body. Deal with it.

So you know that some members of this community ARE exercising a “fetish for strange men” (your words - you can’t report me) yet we have no idea which ones those are and you ask us to let them all into spaces where women are vulnerable on the off chance they are not one of those.

As government stats show that men who identify as trans (whatever their motivation) are MORE likely to be sex offenders then other men I’d say it increases the risk to our safety (as well as privacy) to an unacceptable level.

Can you see the problem with that?

Are you equally unconcerned when an out and proud masculine man takes your stuff or your safe space or shows you his genitalia?
You say you’re pro trans and pro human rights - do you think there certain human rights trans people currently don’t have?

Thread is surely incomplete without this....

Ooh edgy comedy. Grow up.

Did you mean porn in the wrong body or born in the wrong body?

Both have major issues to be fair. And my sarcasm radar is on the blink today.

What Helen Joyce has to say re the parents of those claiming their children are ‘trans’ is so, so aposite. They are, and maybe have to be, the truest believers of all. They say they are ‘trans allies’ while - Jamie Lee Curtis comes to mind - sidelining their actual daughters. No allyship for them.

@nothingcomestonothing that's the fella.

The guidelines on mumsnet can be quite nebulous

‘not in the spirit’ covers a multitude of post deletions that aren’t specifically defined

I'm still working my way through the thread but .....

@HowardTJMoon But the more I see the anti-trans side banging on about "bearded blokes in miniskirts" and the like, or scouring police reports for any crime that they can try to pin on someone they think might be trans, the less likely I am to listen because it just reminds me too much of the 80s bigots going on about "limp-wristed bum-boys", "butch men-hating lesbos" and "backs to the wall, lads, that poof's coming through".

I remember these times and this type of comment very well.

I think you’ll find these were overwhelmingly MALE comments against gays, not FEMALE comments.
And illustrates perfectly how it’s MEN who need to be educated to #be kind

You are just being argumentative for arguments sake now.

tralalaala · Today 16:51

People are who they say they are and that's all you need to know. Please stop with the bigotry in our safe space thread.

They say they are achingly worried about the marginalised - and yet poor, working class women in prison, rape shelters etc don’t feature on their radar at all. They never call themselves a ‘woman ally’.

This is the key bit for me and makes it hard not to conclude this is all performative.

'Trans rights' are the cause du jour and there is no thought at all given to the vulnerable women, right under their noses, who are most affected by this extraordinary over reach by men.

Please stop with the bigotry in our safe space thread

oh good grief