Thread 2 - Is anyone else on here pro-trans

[tinydaisies]

I was really enjoying the 1st thread, hopefully it's ok to have a follow on so we can continue debating

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5115405-to-ask-if-anyone-else-on-mn-is-not-anti-trans

Hopefully this isn't a TAAT.

MNHQ on the case now deleting your bile. Please show more respect.

We've been mocked as women who care about the rights of women to single sex spaces by a number of the hashtag bekind "I'm so progressive" posters here, in fact.

These are daft words for body parts. Because it is inherently ridiculous to talk about a female penis or a male breast.

Because it is not, and never will be, possible to change sex.

And you do understand that it’s offensive and discriminatory to make universaldeclarations about the character/ appearance of a social group based on generalisations and stereotypes?

Well bang goes the science of statistics, will be sadly missed.

"ham hock" is rhyming slang, a euphemism for "cock", itself a euphemism for "penis".

Rhyming slang is an established part of a particular dialect and euphemisms are common aspects of language.

Just terms used to avoid saying "penis", which is just a body part.

Talk about looking frantically for offence.

Reporting "moobs" and "ham hock" instead of presenting a proper argument
Just about sums it up

Defending the rights and feelings of men over those of women.

Men are afraid women with laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.

Wahey!!

Hang on it was tralalaa who talked of ham hock?

Take that up with them.

I'm currently watching the football, in jeans, a bloke's t shirt, relatively short hair and no make up. Am I a man?

Or does the glass of pinot grigio give me away. I must have a manly beer.

All those semiotics are there, but biology over rides them, as does every single other thing about my appearance.

Oh you don't even need the operation! You can just say 'man' in the mirror three times and you'll become all man!

I'm interested if they've surveyed women who have themselves personally been to prison, rape crisis or a women's centre on the issue.
Not people who know a person who's been or have a close relative or friend there. People who've actually been.

The results of this kind of statistic would be very relevant.

Other people opining without experience need to have this information available to them.

How reasurring it is to know that the political correctness police are on the job in this shocking, appalling thread. Moobs?😱If we tolerate this our children will be next!

On what, the need for single sex services?

https://sex-matters.org/posts/single-sex-services/womens-services-a-sector-silenced-new-report/

How many female people voicing their opinion will be enough to be convincing though?

Considering those female people in prison or using rape crisis or women's centres tend to be female people who have significant abuse and trauma to deal with and very few will speak about this issue publicly, how many do you think are needed to put themselves in the way of potential harm to enact changes needed to protect women and children in those spaces?

Tell me @DianeAbbotsJamjars how you can scientifically support your claim that men or women can transition fully. Scientifically, not emotionally.

To keep reporting perfectly legitimate posts and having womens voices deleted and shut down is not active debate, it's hiding the argument.

@greenpolarbear @TheKeatingFive Yes, this is a real problem. A woman was recently on the radio (bbc2 I think) saying she had been the victim of rape and that if any biological man was to be in a safe space such as changing room or toilet they would feel panicked. This absolutely had to trump a biological males feelings. It has to because they simply won't have had to face the daily fear of attacks or violation from men (or if they do fear the same, it simply reinforces that men are seen as a threat, even trans).

I feel so sad that this debate has become an argument between transwomen and biological women. Surely we all just want to feel safe. A third changing area and toilet space seems the most obvious action. Or perhaps noone has dared to challenge the patriarchy we live in and simply put the onus on biological men to make their spaces suitable and safe for transwomen. Seems that biological men have been saved this row entirely.

Its your posts that are falling foul of MN talk guidelines, take it up with them.

@ArabellaScott
Do you have a survey link?

Women who've been to prison should be asked their option on having males in female prisons.

Women who've been to rape crisis should be asked their opinions on having males in female rape crisis centres.

Women who've been to women's shelters should be asked their opinions on having males in female shelters.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/womens-aid-single-sex-services-statement/

'... it is still widely acknowledged by expert service providers that single sex, trauma informed spaces are crucial in providing safe spaces for recovery from abuse and violence for women and their children'

Jesus Christ, what a lot of old bollocks.

This stood out: I don’t believe anyone should feel unsafe

Women always feel unsafe, to varying degrees, due to the humanitarian disaster that is ‘men’. Giving them a tiny refuge in the form of proper single-sex spaces is surely not too much to ask.

No one is ‘yelling about toilets’. Nobody needs to make ‘snap comments’. It’s really bloody simple and everyone has had plenty of thinking time to think over this very simple issue.

It's your posts that are falling foul of MN talk guidelines, take it up with them.

Best tell Biffbaff that too.

https://academic.oup.com/bjc/article/62/4/1000/6370239

This article was somewhat biased, imo, but here it is.