Thread 2 - Is anyone else on here pro-trans

[tinydaisies]

I was really enjoying the 1st thread, hopefully it's ok to have a follow on so we can continue debating

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5115405-to-ask-if-anyone-else-on-mn-is-not-anti-trans

Hopefully this isn't a TAAT.

So you’re saying trans women are men and trans men are men? I think you’re looking to have your cake and eat it here somewhat.

Yeah because trans people have no idea what it’s like to be oppressed.

Some do, yes. But it's not the same as women being oppressed for being female.

I don't believe most people are transphobic. Women just want clarification of why policy makers make decisions that don't make sense. Prior to the 1980s you needed to have undergone full reassignment surgery to get a certificate of your new gender. Few did (approximately 2000 per year).
I have watched many television programmes where trans women have breast implants but wish to keep their penis. That is the issue. By law non consentual penetrative sex is rape. That is impossible for a woman to petpertrate, hence a lesbian relationship cannot be used in adultery cases.
I would object to seeing a penis in lacey knickers looking at me in a communal changing room. However I am tall, strong and not afraid of men. Said TW in that space would get short shift from me.
The issue is not trans people, it's clarity from our politicans , third spaces for those who need them and less stereotyping around visual appearance. I work in a female based industry and was called Barbie at university. I doubt if anybody would dare flash me now. They did then. I get just as angry with female recording stars dressed in their knickers. How about a few men in their pants on TV? As the entertainment industry is full of men we get that crap too.
As I said on the previous post Cass will be an eye opener to the UK. People can read this and understand. It also has compassion within it's framework.
I can also tell you that many of the recent studies on trans gender issues are part of the current psychology teachings. The next wave of clinicians will have a broader view. (I have a med student family member).

Can you give examples of the oppression? Genuinely curious.

She has a feminine penis from all the HRT it's not the same as a man's ham.

Ham? 🤔

"Feminine penis"

Sometimes women say 'no' to them.

This argument is not on point to what you are responding to. We can support people who identify as trans without giving up our female only spaces.
A vision of us all singing Kumbaya by the fire in the rape crisis center is lovely. Unless one of us is a rapist, that is.

He's got a what?

I was trying to be polite! Ham hock. You know.

I'm not sure how Eddie Izzard, Jamie Wallis, Isla Bryson and Karen White are more oppressed than female.teenagers in Afghanistan,.Sudan, Niger etc.

"Being trans" is a mental health issue - something to try and resolve/move on from etc not to be encouraged/endorsed.

No one would encourage another to continue being anorexic or more bulimic etc.

For me being encouraging of someone pretending to be what they clearly arent and can never truly be is just as an appalling act as encouraging someone with a bmi of 15 to reduce it further.

I know that opinion will enrage some but..... knowing how much this cult destroys so many teens, adults, splits families apart enrages me. Seeing photos of young women who've had their boobs chopped off is heartbreaking, their voices ruined forever by just three months of being on Testosterone etc. Utterly irreversible. So many other heartbreaking examples.
What I am "pro" is encouraging and supporting people to be happy and joyful as they are.

Can someone please tell me, is gender disphoria the only mental disorder listed in the DSM V that is treated by encouraging and affirming the patient’s belief and opinion about themselves?

Would we do that with any other mental disorder?

Also, how can you know if you feel like a woman if you’ve never been one? Or feel like a man if you’ve never been one?

If I started telling everyone I now identify as a black woman, because I feel like I am one, would most people see that as offensive? (I am white, to clarify)

True, we don't go round saying 'yes you are fat' to people with anorexia.

f I started telling everyone I now identify as a black woman, because I feel like I am one, would most people see that as offensive? (I am white, to clarify)

Ask Rachel Dolezal, I think she will confirm most people do.

By "feminine" you mean small?
Ye gads, my ex was transgender and I didn't even know!

Apparently according to some they are more "docile" than a masculine penis.

She has a feminine penis

Everything that's wrong with this situation, in five words.

If an archaeologist digs up his skeleton in years to come, they will know he was male.

Transphobia on here is off the charts. Mocking genital reconstruction surgery on a male penis and referring to "moobs" rather than breasts. It's going too far.

Because the two things aren't remotely comparable.
One relates to sexual preference, something we all have.
The other relates to altering biological fact, something that's widely accepted to be impossible.
Plus, homosexual men don't want access to women-only spaces.
So, the two are wildly different. So different, in fact, that some members of the LGB community don't understand why they're associated with the 'T'...

'Moobs' is not remotely transphobic - this has LONG been the term used by men to refer to 'Man Boobs'. Is NOTHING safe from being hijacked now?

No. I am not saying that. That is a false representation on what I have said.

I have said that males who make extreme body modifications are still male people. They are male people who have made extreme body modifications. They cannot change their bodies completely, they certainly cannot change the coding in their cells that make them male. They cannot change their hips, their skeletal proportions nor their facial proportions.

They are still male.

Female people who make extreme body modifications via testosterone are still female people. However, they also acknowledge that their choice to take testosterone makes some irreversible changes to their face and some changes to their fat distribution and ability to build muscle that may make other female people interpret their presence as that of a male person.

It seems clarabell that you are another absolutist thinker and seem to wish to dismiss the experience of female people with transgender identities or you maybe you just wish to ignore their reality to score points against someone you disagree with.