Thread 2 - Is anyone else on here pro-trans

[tinydaisies]

I was really enjoying the 1st thread, hopefully it's ok to have a follow on so we can continue debating

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5115405-to-ask-if-anyone-else-on-mn-is-not-anti-trans

Hopefully this isn't a TAAT.

This MTF would pass for female practically anywhere

No, not in real life when you see him move etc. Also, have you heard his voice?

It's a still image. Irl most women can tell. I can't speak for men.

It is interesting, because I get the impression men are less good at recognition than women. I expect because they don't need to be for their safety.

That's exactly it. Not that I want to see him move.... but it's about so much more than facial looks.

Willoughby might look quite feminine in carefully poised and airbruched photos, but see Willoughby in real life and you are in no doubt.

doggolove

predatory people? Have you looked at crime statistics recently? The overwhelming majority of violent crime is perpetuated by males. Whether they call themselves Sally or whatever.
yes I’m saying it’s a man or woman who is predatory- I don’t want to be around any violent assholes. Couldn’t give a crap if they’re men, women or trans, I don’t want to be around them. If you’re attacked by a woman you don’t care if most attacks are perpetrated by men!!! So I don’t mind being in a space with your average decent person, I just don’t want someone violent in there!

I started following this thread as my child is identifying as male despite being born female. On another thread I was accused of being a child abuser and deserving of a prison sentence because of neglect.

Instead, I want him to be happy and to feel free to identify as he wants/ feels the need to. So like some other posters I was hoping this would stay positive as per the title of the post. My son doesn't want to go around attracting attention or causing offence to others. He wants to live his life the way he wants to and I will support him in that.

FWIW, I think he is very brave (braver than I could ever be) and for that we will be forever proud of him

It’s funny how people say TWAW until their mother needs intimate care or their grand daughter wants to play rugby and there’s a TW on the team.

my partner was like this, be kind “Ineedarun” etc etc. until his daughter encountered a TW in the gym showers. Then all hell broke loose.

Again middle class white males doing exactly what they want as they always have.

“ When society will believe a man who says he is a woman over a woman who says he's not, then that tells your that society knows exactly who the men are and exactly who the women are."

@Youmeanyouvelostyourkey thank you for your story. Some of the comments on here are disgraceful.

I hope your child is happier. But I'd be wanting to know why they felt like this, what about being a woman they wanted to avoid, and i still wouldn't really believe they were male.

🙈🙈jesus, what aren't you understanding?
Males are far far far more
likely to commit violent acts therefore they're a greater risk to females. Therefore trans women, who are male, should not have access to female spaces. Ever.

I disagree, there are many lesbians like her from Cole and Abbie who look very male. FTM isnt a million miles away from that.

The couple on tiktok? They are both very clearly female. I've actually seen them out and about in real life and Cole is tiny, very petite but with boobs and hips and a feminine face. Stop basing it on having short hair and hoodies ffs.

can you copy/paste or quote them please?
(thought not)

But you can't tell you who the decent or threatening men are. But we do know that men commit 97% of sexual offences. That is why we keep all men out when women are vulnerable, such as when they are naked or in sleeping arrangements or in services for women who have suffered male sexual violence.

TheKeatingFive
but in the day to day mixed toilets etc don’t hugely bother me

What about prisons, refuges, rape crisis groups, female only wards, intimate care for sick or disabled people?

These may not impact you directly, but what about the women for whom they do?
I was saying for me. If others have a problem of course ask they should get a choice, people feel uncomfortable about situations or cannot handle being in certain situations and of course everything should be geared towards helping them feel they’re in safe hands. I’m lucky enough to never have been in most of the other situations. I’ve been in a mixed ward when I was vulnerable, the hospital was full and I’d been on a trolley for nearly a day and was grateful to get a room and be helped. Again just my opinion, I heard a lady complaining to nurses about a similar situation and I’ll be honest I rolled my eyes as the halls were full and she was demanding a female only room. She was shouty and cruel and threatening to the staff (I’ll go to the newspapers etc etc) hence me rolling my eyes. Again just my opinion

Brave? Your child is delusional and needs help to accept themselves as female. How sad.

TheDogsAreInThePool
would you speak to someone in real life like this? This is why most trans posts get deleted, bullying and horribleness.

Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Trans gender fluid are whatever they identify with at that time.

no trans woman is trying to steal feminism and women’s rights. I hate that attitude. I hope all those with such attitudes did out with my generation and let the young people continue a world where we aren’t defined and limited by body parts.

But what does it mean to live as a female?

It means to me - having a lot of gender stereotypes restricting you

It means having your view of yourself shaped by those stereotypes

It means periods and pregnancy

It means rape

It means being shorter and weaker than the vast majority of men

Apologies - hadn't finished

There is nothing else that I share in common with other women

So how can your child feel like the opposite sex ? Wtf do they mean by that

Physical reality is the only common thread between women - it is what it means to be woman

Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Trans gender fluid are whatever they identify with at that time.

Why do you believe this?

I’m not anti trans. I just don’t believe women’s spaces should be used by trans women. There needs to be a neutral third space.

There always has been. It's called unisex.

Transowmen are not women or they wouldn't need the trans in front of the word woman

I'm very strongly pro-trans people. And I also believe feminism is about biological women. The two views are quite compatible.

What I don't believe in is lying. Lying to vulnerable people with complex issues by telling them that being trans will make them happy. It really is the most extraordinary gaslighting. Let people be who they want. Let them have sex with any consenting adult who agrees and let them dress how they wish. But don't ignore underlying trauma, neurodivergence or body dysmorphia and think a rainbow flag is the answer. Don't call yourself an ally if your actions amount to bullying and don't think for a moment you get to speak on behalf of women who want single sex spaces away from males.

How are trans women women. I can't be one because I'm a woman. So by definition they are not.

Well, I'm afraid young people are going to have to be defined and limited by body parts if they want to continue the world.

Basic biology and all that.

It is interesting, because I get the impression men are less good at recognition than women. I expect because they don't need to be for their safety.

Possibly, but my male partner can spot them easily. I remember watching big brother and within about 5 seconds he recognised Hallie, as trans, before even hearing the voice. I remember people on here saying that he passed as a woman. 🤦🏻‍♀️ They're either really bad at seeing what's in front of them or just lying, possibly to appear kind.