Thread 2 - Is anyone else on here pro-trans

[tinydaisies]

I was really enjoying the 1st thread, hopefully it's ok to have a follow on so we can continue debating

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5115405-to-ask-if-anyone-else-on-mn-is-not-anti-trans

Hopefully this isn't a TAAT.

In real life I don't think FTM pass much better than MTF. Their smaller stature and body shape are dead giveaways.

I know a few people who are trans. Not enough to be statistically significant. None of them are lying to themselves, just trying to.live their lives going forward in a way that is genuine to who they are.

What rubbish!

I'm a Nigerian Prince and I need your bank details so that I can transfer all my money out of the country.

I'm here to read your nan's gas meter <flashes ID card> alright if I come on in?

I'm an off-duty police officer - can I give you a lift home darlin'?

Oh really? If you can always tell, please explain to the thread how you know she is a ciswoman or a trans woman:

My late exhusband told his final girlfriend that he earned £132,00, had a flat in Cheltenham, a gite in France and had a degree from Oxford University. He was in fact unemployed and burning through his pensions and hadn't worked for 10 years. He went to Merton tech and was actually of no fixed abode.. She did what the PP said and believed absolutely everything he told her. It was all absolutely lies. He took her money, lived in her house rent free for 8 months and then ran away when it all started to fall apart at the seams. She believed that he was what he said he was.....so that's okay then isn't it.

I disagree, there are many lesbians like her from Cole and Abbie who look very male. FTM isnt a million miles away from that.

Please stop men coming into our safe space toilets, rape crisis centres, women's refuges, women's only clubs, women's sports, women's hospital appointments etc etc etc.

They are not lying to themselves if they think they are transwomen. They are absolutely lying to themselves if they think they are actually women.

Yeah, I don't agree with that either. Lesbians can look 'butch' to me, but not make. Very different things.

Cole doesn’t look like she is actually male. Because she’s not.

If people want to be trans, fine. I think there are other issues with many of them, and most aren't properly supported, and I feel sorry for them. I am vehemently opposed to them being in women's toilets, changing rooms, sports, prisons taking up spaces designated for women etc. They aren't women they probably need a third designation. I also don't think they should be lumped in with LGB who I think are in a different space and have their own issues which are being overlooked.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12430617/Transgender-stripper-Emma-Rose-reveals-embarrassing-moment-popped-performance-flee-venue-lying-biological-sex-job.html

This MTF would pass for female practically anywhere.

I’ve never been affected by trans people- I get on the sports front it’s something that needs to be figured out, but in the day to day mixed toilets etc don’t hugely bother me. I know a women who was attacked in a women’s toilet by a group of girls and I’ve felt as intimidated by a girl who followed me after a concert asking what my problem was and getting in my face. So my problem is with predatory people not trans people. Also I think trans people in the large have probably had to deal with tons more than your average person and don’t deserve more heaped onto them, chances are they’re just trying to be happy like the rest of us!

Apart from his dick popping out, of course

Why do you dislike men so much that you think to be one is nasty or an insult? It’s not a value judgement to call a man a man, it’s a biological fact.

Real life is totally different to a pic however.

There are so many cues that are picked up subconsciously in real life.

I don't think any MtF truly pass, except for those who have been blocked in puberty - and that is not something that should be supported imo.

Still photos with filters are absolutely undone when you see someone move live. Look at Juno Dawson on tv shows. 0r Jordan Grey. Instantly recognisable as men.

Well, yes there is that, but in terms of build and face. My point is that these MTF are often of a slimmer frame, with feminine features. They dont all wander round looking like Grayson Perry.

but in the day to day mixed toilets etc don’t hugely bother me

What about prisons, refuges, rape crisis groups, female only wards, intimate care for sick or disabled people?

These may not impact you directly, but what about the women for whom they do?

predatory people? Have you looked at crime statistics recently? The overwhelming majority of violent crime is perpetuated by males. Whether they call themselves Sally or whatever.

Do those who wholeheartedly disagree accept a trans MTF who has had gender confirmation surgery as a woman?

No. A man who has had 'gender confirmation surgery' is simply a castrated man.

He might not be able to rape me with a penis, but he still poses the same level of potential threat that any other man poses, in that he could still sexually or physically assault me. He could still kill me.

It doesn't matter if it's not all men. It's enough men. And that includes men who wish they were women.

It's a still image. Irl most women can tell. I can't speak for men.

It is sideways to the point really.

There's no reason trans people shouldn't follow the same social norms as everyone else that enable different people to live side by side happily. It's actually quite transphobic to suggest trans people need to transgress boundaries as part of their identity. Not all trans people are like this, I know from personal experience.

Would I think a soldier castrated in battle was a woman? I can't think of anything so insulting to that soldier

So why should I accept any other castrated male as a woman ( in the times when it actually matters as opposed to having a chat in the office or pub )

I just looked him up and he's some pornography actor who has tons of videos of other men interacting very closely with his unmistakably male sex organ.

Not the best example of a male who is successfully masquerading as female tbh.

If you are trying to argue that males and females present similar levels of risk of sexual violence to women, the data really does not support you.

If you are trying to argue that males present the same physical risk to women as females, the data does not support you.

If you are trying to argue that women are as at risk of sexual voyeurism from other women as they are from men, the data does not support you.

The fact that some women have suffered at the hands of other women is not an argument to remove the safeguarding from women and girls that protects them from men.