To like Keir Starmer?

[Emmanuelll]

Unlike Tony Blair, he comes from a working class background - his siblings would still call themselves working class.

As a very bright lawyer, he could have sought a path which made him rich quickly but instead chose human rights which isn’t an easy route to take and he’s defended ‘the little guy’ against corporations. He’s also anti-death penalty.

Ok, he’s a Sir, and I’ve heard people (perhaps not unreasonably) question why the leader of the Labour Party would have a title like that. But he earned it through work for the criminal justice system.

On the face of it, it seems as though he deserves a chance.

I would much rather have him as PM than a former Bullingdon club member who used to burn money in front of homeless people for the fun of it.

FinalCeleryScheme
He’s not Oxbridge

What a snobbish remark! As if going to Oxbridge guarantees real intelligence

But why is that relevant to anything? The Conservatives did not have the majority vote share in 2019 or in 2010, Labour did not have a majority vote share in 1997, the Conservatives did not have majority vote share in 1992, and so on .... the only party to win a majority vote share was the Conservatives in 1931 with 60%.

It is an entirely irrelevant criticism and meaningless in the UK's political arena.

Because a PP made that claim so I am correcting that - it’s twisting statistics to suit their narrative. It happens so often on fora,,in the media and by politicians and the truth gets lost in all that.

if PP had simply said - Starmer was clever and used the FPTP system to win a landslide number of seats, then I wouldn’t have said anything.

I am not anti Starmer or Labour, as I also said : I want Starmer and Labour to do well, the country needs them to.

I didnt watch. It’s Double Down News. At best it’ll be distortion and misrepresentation. It won’t add anything to anyone’s knowledge. They come from that part of the left that wants to destroy Starmer and the centre left. Medium reliability according to Media Bias Fact Check.
honestly, I’m on that wing of the party in terms of philosophy, but I’d still rather have centre left than Tories. A lot would rather be in opposition for ever rather than compromise.
mediabiasfactcheck.com/double-down-news-ddn-bias/

Tbh I think being persuasive or otherwise isn't related to intelligence anyway.

He doesn’t say much so it is easy for people to like him. They can just assume he thinks the same way they do.

She didn't say he won the majority vote share. She said 'he persuaded the whole country to vote for him', which he did – through consolidating votes in every nation and more widespread than any other party.

Agree. We desperately need an end to the damaging chaos of the past few years.

It was more votes than anyone else managed to get…
Funny how people who don’t like a Labour government have suddenly discovered how ‘unfair’ FPTP can be.

And she/he knows that how?
And technically they didn’t vote for him even if tactical and significant number chose not to vote at all

They are not taxing the parents, they are taxing the school, who most definitely do not pay their taxes towards public services. How the private school chooses to cope with that tax is up to them.

I think the last lot of Tories saying this every day and not being struck by lightning comes close to the elusive proof for t(e non existence of God…

I also like him, I think he is intelligent and competent. However, he is also very sly.
For example, he is a specialist human rights lawyer and has put a policy into the manifesto which is a breach of human rights laws (VAT on education). He absolutely must know this, by virtue of his job. So he either tricked the left in his party or he tricked the electorate.
They all do this. I do not really care. But let’s not pretend he is some holier than though person or better than any of the others.
He is competent, driven and will make a good PM. However, he is clearly also ruthless.
Personally, I just want someone in charge who can get the job done. Manage the conflicting demands etc and find a solid middle ground. I think he will do this.

You think the VAT issue makes him ruthless? Taxing HRT payers more isn't ruthless.

It's a shame that more people were not up in arms about the ruthless treatment of disabled people under the last government.

How do they know that? ... Because everyone has the data. Let's not try to pretend that the vast, vast majority of people don't vote for the party they wish to see in government.

His manner and style of engaging is fine, but it’s more about policies and impact for me so I’ll wait and see

Eh? The Sunak’s were a doctor and pharmacist. Much more solidly middle class than Starmer’s parents. He went to bloody Winchester! That doesn’t come cheap.

Actually I do agree with the ruthless assessment and I would be worried if I were the Conservatives. If you look at what he does it is very smart. Not one decision he takes has not had the ground prepared very carefully to ensure success. It is very clever. By the time it’s been identified, you’ve lost the ability to challenge it.

I don’t know what kind of crisis leader he is, but he’s absolutely tapped the policy already. With a clear aim of quick delivery and setting a strong narrative. Because the only way he’s going to beat Reform is the record. The Conservatives couldn’t beat Farage because they couldn’t show what they had done. Well Labour will need to deliver and have a counter narrative for that.

There is speculation, informed or otherwise, that there was tactical voting but no data that I am aware of - I have looked but happy to be corrected. Otherwise, no one knows that the vast vast majority of people who voted did so tactically.

Actually I do agree with the ruthless assessment and I would be worried if I were the Conservatives. If you look at what he does it is very smart. Not one decision he takes has not had the ground prepared very carefully to ensure success. It is very clever. By the time it’s been identified, you’ve lost the ability to challenge it.

Ok, I had thought that Araminta was only taking about the VAT policy.

“You think the VAT issue makes him ruthless? Taxing HRT payers more isn't ruthless.”

@Emmanuelll - yes being a specialist in Human Rights laws and proposing a policy which is in breach of those laws, knowing that full well, does make a person ruthless. And hypocritical.

Comes with the politician territory though.

Personally, I want ruthless and competent. As long as he is not corrupt. That would be my red line.
We need a clever manager to deal with all the conflicting interests not just in the country, but also in the Labour Party itself. He needs to be strong, strategic, grown up and clever. That is what we need and deserve.

Obviously, Keir and Victoria are both very middle class. Who actually cares. They are competent and driven. And I don’t think they are corrupt.

I don’t agree with that assessment btw but let’s not deny Pannick his moment in the sun. The government can beat that with some ease.

Starmer seems to like lining things up to deliver and then pounce with a big announcement. Very lawyerly. I think you will see a lot more of it.

You can’t really get data because the vote is secret. However the numbers visiting tactical voting sites are on record, demonstrating people were interested in the idea, while the actual votes in some constituencies strongly suggest it happened.

Could you explain how putting VAT on private education is against anyone’s human rights under law please? Because I’m not seeing it, and you’ve said so very authoritatively twice now.